Locating a Race Red Titanium....

[Ralph Gould]

Howdy Folks....  

I am looking specifically for a RACE RED Titanium TC.  I will consider an XLT but want it pretty much loaded with options.  But... it has to be RACE RED. (NOT Kapoor Red)

I talked to a local dealer and he says there is only ONE  "Race Red Titanium" TC at a dealership in the USA.   And he said they may not let him get it for me.

How do I do a search to try to locate a RACE RED... Titanium or loaded XLT?   

I tried the Ford web site... but it shows many other choices other than the one I want.  Also if I try to expand my search, I have to keep changing zip codes and go to the 100 mile radius selection.  Which in my opinion, is obviously missing many dealerships.  I would like to find the right TC as near as I can to my location.  

There has to be a way to search ONLY for RACE RED TC's.

 

Also...  is it best to "go to the distant dealership" to purchase the one I might find, instead of buying it locally and have the vehicle driven to my location?  The thing I fear most is you have to buy it first, before they pick it up.  Which means, it is already mine before it arrives and there is no test drive before accepting the vehicle.  

 

And finally...  I am puzzled here. Why is my local Ford dealership seemingly "hiding" their TC's in the very back of the back row at the back edge of a gravel parking area?  (can't get any further back on the property)  Are they not selling?  Are they not wanting to sell them?  They have a white cargo and a very nice shiny dark colored TC Passenger Wagon.

[Beta Don]

It's always best (cheapest) to buy any vehicle from the dealer who has it sitting on his lot and not asking another dealer to have it shipped to you  -  BOTH dealers will expect to make $$$ for their time and trouble.  In your case, since you're looking for the hen's teeth of all TC's, both dealers will know you're desperate and expect to make a bunch of $$$ from you, because all three of you know how rare this particular vehicle is . . . . whereas, if you were to show up at the dealer who has the vehicle, asking about a Titanium TC and they show you the red one you really want, you could say "Red, huh?  Don't you have it in a better color??"  Then, you could probably make a deal on the red one that he's had sitting unsold on his lot for a month or two  -  He was thinking it might be very hard to sell, so he gives you a break, rather than you pointing out that he has the only red one in all the USA and you've got to have a RED one!

 

Don

[davidparker]

You could order one.  BUT, lead time are very, very long.  Like 6 months...

[OLDSCHOOLFOOL]

I find two XLT passenger wagons at Battlefield Ford in Manassas, Va. Race Red. Have no Idea where you are and don't know what you consider "loaded".

 

Ford is going to limit your search so they can keep the stealership in control. I suspect the salesman did not divulge the location of that "one Race Red Titanium". Decide how far you want to travel, be patient and search within that area.

Edited January 11, 2020 by OLDSCHOOLFOOL

[zalienz]

7 hours ago, davidparker said:

You could order one.  BUT, lead time are very, very long.  Like 6 months...

 

Yes, that's true and what I did. I got exactly what I wanted. But truth be told, you wait forever and then have to pay sticker price, because they know you want it. I managed a few discounts, but not much compared to the incentives for buying what's on the dealer's lot. More bargaining power. You be the judge.

[Beta Don]

I've just never wanted something so specific that I felt the need to special order it new.  I much prefer to find 2, 3 or 4 year old really low miles vehicles and save $10K or so rather than pay a fortune for the privilege of ordering something brand new

 

When we bought our TC, I wanted the short wheelbase and had to hunt quite awhile to find the 'right' one, but we got a 2014 in 2017 with only 12,000 miles on it and we saved $12K . . . . a dollar a mile!  It was at a dealer in Georgia, 350 miles away.  Turned out, we were the first owners too!  The dealer had let it sit on his lot unsold for more than a year and then he titled it and used it as a dealer loaner vehicle for about 18 months and then we bought it

 

When we bought our 2017 Chevy Volt, I got way more 'specific' than I've ever done in the past.  I wanted the White Pearl paint with the black & brandy interior.  It had to be fully equipped with every option so I could make sure it had Adaptive Cruise Control.  I eventually found that exact one owner car with 20K on it and bought it for $16K off the sticker.  That one was in Iowa, 1,100 miles away, so we flew up to pick it up and made a week long vacation out of bringing it home

 

It'll definitely be a long time before I buy another brand new car again  -  I've only done it twice before.  Once when I ordered a VW GTI while I was stationed in Germany and we picked it up when we arrived stateside and last time was when we bought our first EV, a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiEv and we got a $7.5K tax credit buying it new

 

Don

[windguy]

12 hours ago, zalienz said:

 

Yes, that's true and what I did. I got exactly what I wanted. But truth be told, you wait forever and then have to pay sticker price, because they know you want it. I managed a few discounts, but not much compared to the incentives for buying what's on the dealer's lot. More bargaining power. You be the judge.

 

Just want to clarify one point. If you order a new van, there's no reason to pay sticker price, or MSRP regardless of what you order.

If you use a buying service, there are many available, you will pay far less than sticker. I think most programs have similar pricing agreements with the auto makers.

 

In my case, I used Costco's auto buying program. Costco's program assigns you to a dealer based on your zip code that's enrolled in the program. You can switch dealers if needed. I did that. You are given a quote via email based on prearranged pricing structure between Costco and the dealer. I paid $100 less than dealer invoice. Not MSRP.  If there are any Ford incentives available when your van is delivered, you can stack those for extra savings. The only caveat when ordering is that you can't time the delivery so it may not align with Ford incentives. My purchase didn't. I tried, but the offers expired. The dealer had no incentive to help me.

 

I tried to take the Costco price to three other Ford dealers that were closer to me and none would match it.  In fact, they were unresponsive via email because I'm guessing they knew they weren't going to get anywhere near this pricing. Whether you use the buying service or not, it gives you a starting price point to negotiate with. There is no cost to you to use the service. The dealer pays a fee to the service. There is no haggling with the buying service. Fixed pricing.

Edited January 12, 2020 by windguy

[Fifty150]

Costco is a good way to buy a car without the hassle.  The worst part about buying a car is the hassle of haggling.  What else do you buy, that you have to haggle pricing?  I can't imagine going to the grocery store, and negotiating a quart of milk.  Unless you enjoy asking, "here's $400Billion, now what are you going to do for me?".  What moron country hands out billions of dollars, without any return on investment?  

[Tom899]

Hope you find one, I love my Race Red! I still get many compliments. I have a friend that ordered one on November 18th, he's getting it at the end of this month, so 2 1/2 months, not bad. They are moving production to Mexico for 2021 model year, should be much quicker to get one then.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Tom899

[windguy]

5 hours ago, Tom899 said:

They are moving production to Mexico for 2021 model year, should be much quicker to get one then.

 

Thanks for posting that tidbit, good catch! I missed that somehow.

 

Below is an article that highlights that change. I'm sure there are others but probably not much info on the TC itself.

 

For those that kept insisting that Ford stopped converting cargo vans from passenger vans after being imported, perhaps this article will convince you it's still being done. Probably not.

 

Wonder what the next Gen 3 TC is going to be like? I hate being jealous. Maybe a hybrid and/or EV since US markets can't accept the diesel. AWD option would be super cool. Will be fun to see what develops.

 

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ford-will-build-transit-connect-mexico

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by windguy

[Fifty150]

9 hours ago, windguy said:

AWD option would be super cool.

Does the Mercedes small van have AWD?

 

Only if marketing surveys point in that direction. There has to be a demand. 

 

Maybe an AWD Transit Connect could rally race against Subaru.

 

But of course, they can be wrong in the boardroom.  Ford marketing felt that the Ranger was not worth building, and that everybody should just buy an F-150. Are they still on track to give up selling cars in North America? 

 

Who am I to say?  I have never bought a small Ford.  In my mind, I remember the Pinto, Fiesta, and Mustang II.  In today's market, I would buy a Honda if I needed a small car.  Same way I would not buy a Honda Ridgeline pickup truck.   But I am also the same guy who would buy a Toyota Tacoma instead of the new Ranger.  

Edited January 19, 2020 by Fifty150

[jrm223]

What difference does Mercedes options make? Our van is based on the same core platform as the Focus, and the Focus ST has AWD, so it would be very easy for Ford to offer on the TC as an option. For that matter, they could easily offer manual trans (also available in certain Focus - Focii? And international TC's, obviously - add diesel options there, even), but that is essentially dead in the US because of ridiculous EPA & overbearing emissions junk; the computer needs the automatic to maintain maximum control of the engine & emissions.

 

Ralph, most used vehicle websites don't have specific color names in their search because there are literally thousands of color names, so they just use generic "red" "blue" black" etc. So about the only real way to search is using Google itself (ala "race red Transit Connect Titanium for sale") - but then, you're also assuming that the selling ad specifically says "Race Red" instead of just "Red", again with the point about classified sites not having manufacturer-specific color names so then you're hoping for the sellers description to say it. The only way to know for sure if a particular red TC is "race red" is by looking at the pics yourself, so I predict you'll look at a lot of "red" TC's (not that there's all that many to begin with) before you finally find your unicorn. As other members have said in other threads about your search, why not just get a different TC Titanium for probably 1/4-1/3 of what you would be paying for a R.R. TCT, and get it repainted by a quality shop?? No three-year search, no waiting, no shipping a van across country, no paying insane premium prices because the dealer saw you coming from ten miles away, etc. But, hey, you do you. 

[OLDSCHOOLFOOL]

10 hours ago, jrm223 said:

What difference does Mercedes options make? Our van is based on the same core platform as the Focus, and the Focus ST has AWD, so it would be very easy for Ford to offer on the TC as an option.

 

It matters. I could be looking to trade up to the Metris, but probably not really since I'd be sure all the issues I might have with the TC is also present there, or mostly anyway. Just in general the Metris is kind of interesting though. I have never carried any loyalty to ANY car brand.

 

Profit margin is what would drive Ford to offer ANYTHING. Little to nothing to do with ease.

[Fifty150]

2 hours ago, OLDSCHOOLFOOL said:

 

Profit margin is what would drive Ford to offer ANYTHING. Little to nothing to do with ease.

 

 

They already sell EcoSport, Edge, Escape, and Flex.  AWD Transit Connect demand could be diverted to one of those other models.  Same way Ford felt that anybody who wants a small pickup should just buy a bigger truck which they don't want.

[windguy]

I'm going to throw out a crazy/radical premonition that you prognosticators can toss around, beat up and chastise. What if Ford decides to drop the wagon version of the TC altogether?

I've always had this thought that Ford imported the TC as a wagon model for the primary reason to skirt the chicken tax and they figured they could sell a few wagons along the way. But the primary purpose of importing the TC was to provide a cargo model to the viable commercial market. Based on the referenced WIKI link below, 85% of the vans imported are for cargo sales. Interesting to read about the Tariff Circumvention highlights.

 

When Ford moves production to Mexico, the requirement to have the wagon version around is eliminated, if that was a reason. The question remains is there enough of a market to warranty its sales?

Ford dropped passenger cars due to poor sales. Ford dropped the Windstar back in 1997 due to poor sales and didn't pick back up with a passenger van until 2010. That's a long gap in the market.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect

Tariff circumvention

Ford imports all Transit Connects as passenger vehicles with rear windows, rear seats, and rear seat-belts to circumvent the 25% tariff on imported light trucks.^[1] The vehicles are exported from Turkey on cargo ships owned by Wallenius Wilhelmsen Logistics, arrive in Baltimore, and are converted into commercial vehicles at WWL Vehicle Services Americas Inc. facility: rear windows are replaced with metal panels and rear seats removed (except on wagons).^[1] The removed parts are recycled.^[1]

 

The process exploited a perceived loophole in the customs definition of a commercial vehicle. As cargo does not need seats with seat belts or rear windows, presence of those items exempts the vehicle from commercial vehicle status. The conversion cost Ford hundreds of dollars per van but saved thousands over having to pay the tax.^[1]

 

Partly because of this, only the long-wheelbase, high-roof configuration is exported to North America. In most places the high-roof Transit Connect, like most Ford Econoline vans, is unable to access multi-story parking because of its height of 1.98 m (6′ 6″).^[26]

 

As of July 2018, Ford continues to employ the loophole but has been continuously in court over the practice.^[27]

 

On June 7, 2019, the United States won its appeal in the Federal Appellate Court. The court determined that the Ford Transit Connect was a vehicle for the transportation of cargo.^[28]

 

Since 2019 production, the conversion process of Transit Connects has undergone major revision. While all vehicles are still imported from Spain as passenger vehicles and converted to cargo vans (a process that happens to approximately 85% of Transit Connects imported to North America^[18]), the conversion no longer involves the disposal/recycling of the removed parts; instead, the removed rear seats and rear windows are shipped to Ford in Spain for reuse.^[18]

 

 

[Fifty150]

19 minutes ago, windguy said:

What if Ford decides to drop the wagon version of the TC altogether?

 

 

It could happen.  Just like with the Ranger.  Anybody who wants a passenger vehicle could buy a crossover SUV from Ford, a full size Transit van from Ford, or buy a small van from another company since Ford is not interested in selling them.  

 

In Europe, vans are popular.  Transit Connect wagons will continue to sell there even if the US market is abandoned.  Another European model will probably try to fill the void.  

 

In Asia, small passenger vans are very popular, but those models haven't reached the USA market.  If Ford stops production of the Transit Connect wagon, then we may see an Asian market van.  

 

 

[WillMartin]

I figure that when my TC bites the dust in a long time, I hope, the next van will be a used Metris.  There should be enough of them by then that they shouldn't be too expensive any more.  My Gen 1 has a single utilitarian drawback - the bed just isn't quite long enough.  Another foot and it would  be perfect.  Since it isn't, when it starts having problems, or gets to the point that it's likely to start having problems, I'll move on to whatever is available that will work as well or better.

 

I like it and will dress it up a little and take care of it.  But, it's a van that I use to haul things.

[jrm223]

10 hours ago, WillMartin said:

My Gen 1 has a single utilitarian drawback - the bed just isn't quite long enough.  Another foot and it would  be perfect. 

 

Enter the Gen 2, lose like 7-8" on the roof height, but gain around a foot or so on the bed length. That and the better appearance are why I went with a G2 over a G1, lol. I don't mind a utilitarian "ugly" ride, but the G1 just isn't my thing - although, that extra roof height would be awesome. But if I could have afforded it, I would have went with a Transit 350 extended-length high-roof for real stand-up room instead of a teeny Transit Connect cargo. 

[PhotoAl]

On 1/11/2020 at 9:15 AM, Ralph Gould said:

Howdy Folks....  

I am looking specifically for a RACE RED Titanium TC.  I will consider an XLT but want it pretty much loaded with options.  But... it has to be RACE RED. (NOT Kapoor Red)

I talked to a local dealer and he says there is only ONE  "Race Red Titanium" TC at a dealership in the USA.   And he said they may not let him get it for me.

How do I do a search to try to locate a RACE RED... Titanium or loaded XLT?   

I tried the Ford web site... but it shows many other choices other than the one I want.  Also if I try to expand my search, I have to keep changing zip codes and go to the 100 mile radius selection.  Which in my opinion, is obviously missing many dealerships.  I would like to find the right TC as near as I can to my location.  

There has to be a way to search ONLY for RACE RED TC's.

 

Also...  is it best to "go to the distant dealership" to purchase the one I might find, instead of buying it locally and have the vehicle driven to my location?  The thing I fear most is you have to buy it first, before they pick it up.  Which means, it is already mine before it arrives and there is no test drive before accepting the vehicle.  

 

And finally...  I am puzzled here. Why is my local Ford dealership seemingly "hiding" their TC's in the very back of the back row at the back edge of a gravel parking area?  (can't get any further back on the property)  Are they not selling?  Are they not wanting to sell them?  They have a white cargo and a very nice shiny dark colored TC Passenger Wagon.

 

Ive had good success with CarGurus web site.  I can set search criteria up to I believe nationwide.  It doesn't have all of the available TCs but can be a good tool.  If I find one I like on there then Id'll look at it with the Ford dealer inventory website.  To get different areas I chang the zip code I'm looking in.  There are other auto locator website out there as well.  I have a 2016 Titanium and have enjoyed the options.  

 

Why do the dealers hide the TCs?  They don't care about selling them, big volume is selling F150s and SUVs and that is where they focus.  I've often thought if Ford pushed the TC wagon more there would be a lot more sales.  

[Ralph Gould]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:45 AM, jrm223 said:

What difference does Mercedes options make? Our van is based on the same core platform as the Focus, and the Focus ST has AWD, so it would be very easy for Ford to offer on the TC as an option. For that matter, they could easily offer manual trans (also available in certain Focus - Focii? And international TC's, obviously - add diesel options there, even), but that is essentially dead in the US because of ridiculous EPA & overbearing emissions junk; the computer needs the automatic to maintain maximum control of the engine & emissions.

 

Ralph, most used vehicle websites don't have specific color names in their search because there are literally thousands of color names, so they just use generic "red" "blue" black" etc. So about the only real way to search is using Google itself (ala "race red Transit Connect Titanium for sale") - but then, you're also assuming that the selling ad specifically says "Race Red" instead of just "Red", again with the point about classified sites not having manufacturer-specific color names so then you're hoping for the sellers description to say it. The only way to know for sure if a particular red TC is "race red" is by looking at the pics yourself, so I predict you'll look at a lot of "red" TC's (not that there's all that many to begin with) before you finally find your unicorn. As other members have said in other threads about your search, why not just get a different TC Titanium for probably 1/4-1/3 of what you would be paying for a R.R. TCT, and get it repainted by a quality shop?? No three-year search, no waiting, no shipping a van across country, no paying insane premium prices because the dealer saw you coming from ten miles away, etc. But, hey, you do you. 

Thanks for your input...  I have thought of having a WHITE TC repainted.  since there are so many whites around!  A couple of phone calls have shown me that it would cost between $3,000 to $4,000.  Investigating doing a WRAP...  can be just as pricey as well.  Partial wraps are less pricey.

I have time, I am not in a rush...  

Thanks again!

Ralph

Edited January 27, 2020 by Ralph Gould
typo

[Beta Don]

On 1/20/2020 at 10:48 PM, windguy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect

Tariff circumvention

Ford imports all Transit Connects as passenger vehicles with rear windows, rear seats, and rear seat-belts to circumvent the 25% tariff on imported light trucks.^[1] The vehicles are exported from Turkey on cargo ships owned by Wallenius Wilhelmsen Logistics, arrive in Baltimore, and are converted into commercial vehicles at WWL Vehicle Services Americas Inc. facility: rear windows are replaced with metal panels and rear seats removed (except on wagons).^[1] The removed parts are recycled.^[1]

 

Partly because of this, only the long-wheelbase, high-roof configuration is exported to North America. In most places the high-roof Transit Connect, like most Ford Econoline vans, is unable to access multi-story parking because of its height of 1.98 m (6′ 6″).^[26]

 

Since 2019 production, the conversion process of Transit Connects has undergone major revision. While all vehicles are still imported from Spain as passenger vehicles and converted to cargo vans (a process that happens to approximately 85% of Transit Connects imported to North America^[18]), the conversion no longer involves the disposal/recycling of the removed parts; instead, the removed rear seats and rear windows are shipped to Ford in Spain for reuse.^[18]

 

As with many Wiki articles, this one is old, out of date and so full of misinformation one wonders if any of it is actually accurate

 

First they say all TC's are imported from Turkey and only high roof models are imported to North America  -  I *think* this was true (or mostly true) for the Gen 1 models, which haven't been imported at all for many years

 

Then they say that since 2019, all vehicles are still imported from Spain and that's been true since at least 2014  -  My Gen 2 was made there and never set foot in Turkey

 

I did read an article waaaay back in 2013 about Ford being busted by the Feds for 'technically' getting around the Chicken Tax and that article said it was over for good then.  I've looked at a few new cargo models and can't find any evidence that seats or anything else has been removed from them, so I'm left to wonder what facts (if any) are behind the Wiki article  -  Wikipedia certainly isn't a fact based source in my book, as so many people are free to edit the articles.  I doubt if any court would recognize it as a source of fact either

 

Don

[G B L]

Hey Don here is a relatively new Chicken Tax article

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/chicken-tax.asp

[i86hotdogs]

 

 

On 1/18/2020 at 9:10 PM, Fifty150 said:

Maybe an AWD Transit Connect could rally race against Subaru.

Don't need AWD to rally

 

 

 

On 1/20/2020 at 9:45 AM, jrm223 said:

EPA & overbearing emissions junk; the computer needs the automatic to maintain maximum control of the engine & emissions.

The transmission has little to no affect on emissions. The take rate for manual transmission vehicles is so low, that makers save money by not even having it as an option on vehicle. The Jeep Renegade is a prime example. The Renegade could be had with a 6-speed manual up until 2018. The take rate for manual Renegades was under 10%. So they dropped the option and kept the auto. Also, auto transmissions are becoming faster to drive, and more efficient than the standard manual transmission. Gone are the days where the manual option is the "fastest" and "most fuel efficient" economical option. 

 

P.S.-Focus ST is FWD, the RS trim is the AWD variant. And just because they share similar DNA, does not mean a manual swap is easy peasy. In reality, the similarities are in the suspension. That's about the extent of it. The van benefits from having a low flat floor for either great access to seats for the wagon, or plentiful flat space for cargo. To implement AWD, you will need a transmission tunnel larger than the one already underneath for the exhaust system. This means the tunnel needs to expand and potentially raise the floor, or the drive train sits low and exposed to that one speed hump that's abnormally larger than the rest.

 

Is it possible? absolutely. There are more than a few manual swaps done to both generation of TC. 

 

 

[G B L]

14 minutes ago, i86hotdogs said:

To implement AWD, you will need a transmission tunnel larger than the one already underneath for the exhaust system. This means the tunnel needs to expand and potentially raise the floor, or the drive train sits low and exposed to that one speed hump that's abnormally larger than the rest.

The Fuel tank would also need to be moved and the Torque tube rear Axle  would also need to be redesigned  to accommodate the differential and half-shafts.

[i86hotdogs]

Perfect, so you get the task it would take to do it.