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cosmicray

2013/gen1 TPMS issue

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So I'm having an issue with the TPMS indicator always being on. Various bits of research have led me to believe that the spare (which on my vehicle has a silver rim) did not come from the factory with a TPMS sensor installed (on the four black rims have a sensor). The spare is currently mounted, and one of the original rims is in the spare position. TPMS sensors have never been replaced. Vehicle is a 2013 Transit Connect (original US body style), has ~47K miles and is slightly more than 6 years on the road.


obviously it is time to replace the sensors. for the first five years they behaved well, with no sensor misfires.

 

Now to my questions …

 

1. Can I buy 5 sensors and put one into the spare rim, or do I have to scout around salvage yards to find another black rim ?

 

2. will the TPMS system have issues if it sees five sensors reporting ?

 

3. (or) am I being forced to only have the black rims on the road, and the silver rim in the spare position ?

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Answers are:

1)  You CAN put a sensor in the spare. But...

2) You will have to "train" the TPMS module which ones to use.  So the one in the spare will be ignored until you retrain the module.  Therefore, if you have a flat, you will still have a low pressure light with the spare on the vehicle until you retrain the module.

 

The paint on the silver spare is a higher quality paint and is more rust resistant.  Your black ones probably already have surface rust on them.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

 

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Curious why you don't put the black wheel back on and just go about your business? Is it flat or something?

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The dash light is on because you are using the spare wheel. It doesn't have a sensor.  Your OEM sensors in the black steel wheels may be fine.  You may not need to replace them.  Check them out first.  TPMS sensors can be installed on the silver wheels.  Motorcraft and aftermarket parts are available. Sensors can be triggered by letting air out, with a special tool, and allegedly a magnet.  There are videos online you can view.  The car will only read the sensor trained to that wheel position.  It won't read 5 sensors and be confused.  

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My 2010 has a low pressure light on.  I suspect the batteries in the sensors are tired.  For now, I'm just ignoring the light.  The tires that are on the van suck, and the OEM steel wheels are rusty.  All will be replaced.  Then I get to do the rain dance to retrain the sensor.  Stay tuned for a lot of cussing this coming summer sometime.

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Find some one with a TPMS tool and they can tell instantly which sensor is not working and why .

As for the retraining if you bring it to my shop I will retrain the sensors NC!

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You might get a line of people at your shop. What's the address?

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When you get close we can set up a meeting spot

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Ok, An update (I've been really busy since the orignal post) …

 

1. The silver rim is still mounted with the spare on passenger/front. That was originally done to expedite getting the vehicle moving. And (for one reason or the other) a decent tire (but not a Continental) is mounted on the original black rim, which is hanging under the rear end.

2. I came into (via Alliance Tire Recycling, about 4 miles from me) another 205/65-15 Continental Conti-Pro Contact. Minimally used (if at all), probably was the factory spare from another TC. vintage 2011, but no dry rot at all. So it's mounted on the driver/front position. I still have two original Continentals on the rear axle. About to replace them with new Continentals, which will get moved to the front positions. At that time, the TPMS sensors will all be replaced, the silver rim will return to the spare position with the non-Continental tire (which has awesome tread BTW).

3. Since all these shenanigans happened, last April I think when I had to move the spare up unexpectedly, I have had various as-sundry rattles coming from the rear, or driver's rear of the TC. Two days ago I resolved both of them, in less than 10 minutes. The first was the spare … It was not snugged up, so I pulled the spline tool, and made it so. Then, when returning the spline tool / lug wrench to the compartment, I noticed that the tool had been stowed backwards ! The head (with the angled socket) goes towards the rear, not the front. Stowing it correctly solved the second rattle, and now my TC rolls down the highway MUCH more quietly than it has since April. In both cases, the blame for the problems can be traced back to the guys who needed to drop the spare, and the tool to unbolt it.

Onward !

 

edit: As to the black vs the silver rims … If I could track down three more silver rims, I would happily run those as standard equipment, and dispose with the hubcaps altogether. Thus far, I've lost 3 of the original 4. Don't feel like replacing them TBH.

Edited by cosmicray
additional thought

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As I searched for wheels, the OEM steel wheels are expensive.  New or used.  Even salvage yards selling on eBay want a lot of money to offset the cost of "free" shipping.   There are aftermarket steel wheels, which when I checked carefully, the dimensions are not exact to the factory wheel.  I found 1 style of aftermarket wheel with exact same dimensions.  Not a big deal if you replace all 5 wheels with new wheels.  You may not want to drive around with mismatched wheels and tires.  But since you are buying used tires, you probably will not be buying new wheels.  And you probably aren't interested in spending more on wheels than the tires cost.

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I found that replacing the OEM steel wheels with used Focus alloys was a whole lot cheaper than replacing them with steel wheels.  Alloys are lighter, look better, and make you a better person.  What's not to like?  The only issue for me is that I got a bigger diameter wheel.  On purpose, of course, but there's always that if you care.

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Got a pic of those focus wheels on your TC? Worth a thousand words and all that, eh.

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@WillMartin I wish I'd seen your post sooner about going with Focus rims.  I got a good deal on 4x 16" rims off of a 2003 Windstar that appeared to fit perfectly, but the garage is telling me the lugs are not biting onto the lug studs deeply enough.  Apparently, the Windstar rims are somewhat thicker than the OEM steel wheels that my winter tires are on.  I'm not even sure Ford makes longer lug studs for the TC.

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5 hours ago, bu11frogg said:

the garage is telling me the lugs are not biting onto the lug studs deeply enough

 

 

That sounds weird. It could be true. But really, how thick can OEM wheels from a Wind Star Van be?

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You can measure the stick out of the stud from the steel wheel and then do the same for the alloy wheel  and see what the difference is .  You can also put the steel wheel on and count the turns before the nut contacts the taper, and then do it for the alloy.  If you do have to change the studs any good auto parts can find new longer  studs that will fit. 

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Posted (edited)

That’s good to know, thanks @G B L!  I was trying to save a few $$ by getting used rims for my non-winter tires, and these were cheaper than the steel ones I could find. I figured I’d need closed acorn nuts and center caps, but never thought about the wheel stud length!

 

@Fifty150 I measured last night and the difference in lug nut travel is about ¼”. The stud protrudes from the end of the nut with the steel wheel, but is hidden about 3/16” ⅜" from the end of the lug nut when mounted on the alloy rim.

Edited by bu11frogg
Updated inaccurate measurement.

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1 hour ago, bu11frogg said:

The stud protrudes from the end of the nut with the steel wheel, but is hidden about 3/16” from the end of the lug nut.

What is the total depth of the lug nut and how far did it  thread into the lug nut on the Alloy?

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@G B L I measured too hastily last time!  The end of the stud comes within ⅜" of the end of the open lug nut.  To answer your question, the lug nuts are 1" long and the stud is threaded ⅝" of the way into the lug nut.  Put another way, the lug nut goes just over 5 turns before I have to put the wrench on it.  I've read that generally, 7 ½ turns or better is recommended.

 

It looks like I need to go get longer wheel studs!

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The studs are a good idea .  5/8" is close have you tried one and put a torque wrench on it ?

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The garage used a torque wrench but still came up short.  I’m hoping that replacing the studs is something I can do easily myself. I’ve done the brakes a few times, but it always takes a lot longer than I expect. The garage said they could do all 4 wheels in 1 hour so I’m hoping I can do it in 2-3 hours. 

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Not sure what tools you have .   An Air hammer make the job easier ,but a stout hammer and a brass drift will be fine.  Get several good nuts , not the lug nuts to pull the studs in , make sure to lubricate the threads.  

What is your shops rate? It could be a good deal in the end.

Keep us posted.

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I think I was barking up the wrong tree.  I went to the local parts store, they said they didn't show any wheel studs...not even original.  They said to try a big wheel / tire shop about 15 miles away and see if they had any lug nuts that might drive in deeper.  This turned out to be a great suggestion.

 

The local Ford dealer said the wheel studs are built into the hub assembly; the only way to order new ones is to get the whole assembly and he only showed one option.  So, that wasn't much help, either, but on reflection maybe saved me a lot of effort trying to replace the wheel studs.

 

I took a closer look at my current open-ended lug nuts from the factory and realized the the tapered end spins freely and has no thread engagement for ⅜"!  I've found several possible replacement acorn lugs with threads all the way to the end (for example: https://www.amazon.com/DPAccessories-LCB3B6HC-CH04020-Chrome-12x1-5-Closed/dp/B00JNEBAVW/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=lug%2Bnut%2Bdpaccessories%2B12%2B1.5&qid=1584275847&sr=8-4&th=1) so I'm going to give one of those a try. 

 

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1 hour ago, bu11frogg said:

I took a closer look at my current open-ended lug nuts from the factory and realized the the tapered end spins freely and has no thread engagement for ⅜"!

 

They make them that way because it makes them MUCH harder to cross thread  -  Too many guys, even some who work in tire shops, stick the lug nut into an air gun socket and try to start them that way, so leaving 3/8ths or so at the beginning that's not threaded gets the nut straightened out and less likely to start crooked.  You should ALWAYS start lug nuts by hand and screw them on 3 or 4 turns before you hit them with a wrench

 

I've got a set of 4 OEM 16" steel wheels from my 2014 stacked in a corner because I'd hate to toss them . . . . but I have no use for them.  For sure not interested in trying to box them up and ship them, but one day . . . . . I'll find someone local who needs them for something.  Nobody within a thousand miles of here needs another set for snow tires (thankfully) so there's not much call for used OEM steelies around here

 

Don

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If you were near me, I would take your steel wheels.

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Posted (edited)

I hope the lug nuts do the trick , it is a great Idea.

The wheel studs being  built into the Hub and not replaceable is complete Rubbish .  I Checked out the hubs on both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 and they are like every other hub in the industry , pressed in studs and fully replaceable. You need to find a better parts store if studs are needed.

Edited by G B L

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