CARGO VAN JUMP SEAT

[windguy]

Below are my project notes for installing a jump seat to a Gen 2 cargo van.

 

The need has come up to add a 3rd seat so my wife and I can transport a relative (MIL) about 100 miles. My first option was to strap her to the roof rack as inspired by Lampoon's Aunt Edna scene, but I didn't want to affect gas mileage with all that drag plus she's still alive. The plan is for my wife to sit in the jump seat and the MIL will be in the passenger seat until her dementia aided driving commentary puts me over the edge. Then all bets are off. Might be other occasions to need that 3rd seat but guessing not very often.

 

I needed to find a jump seat that had a low profile since I have a hanging rack above that limits head room. The rack is removable but I don't want to bother doing that unless I have to. I found a jump seat on Amazon that's used for forklifts and it met the criteria of low profile, folding back for easier storage and comes with a seat belt. Vestil LTS-C Cloth Fork Truck Seat with Seat Belt

Below is the link for the jump seat. The cost was $122 plus tax.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Vestil-LTS-C-Cloth-Fork-Truck/dp/B0052PNSIY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548552589&sr=8-1&keywords=vestil+lts-c

 

There's ample leg room in the storage area I created and legs can also be extended outward in a more reclined position as an option. I think it will work out okay for short trips. Below are pics of the install that should provide enough detail. The seat was mounted to a 3/4" plywood base that's 18" x 24" using 5/16x1.5" bolts. The base is mounted in the rear to a section of superstrut that's bolted to the van floor using the existing cargo hold-down threads (M10-1.50x80). The front of the base is mounted to the existing holes for the platform (M8-1.25x80). The base is setup to be mounted on either passenger or driver side. It takes about five minutes to install the rear brace and seat so the setup if very easy. Will provide an update after we've had a chance to test it out.

 

 

 

Below is the bottom of the jump seat showing the mounting holes available.

 

 

Below is the top view of the mounting board. The strip of wood gave the seat a little rocker for more comfort.

 

 

Below is mounting board bolted to the seat bottom with four bolts and fender washers.

 

 

Below is a close-up of the superstrut. Ends were bolted to the existing cargo tie-down threads. Strip of black painted wood to the right is to cover the mounting bolts not in use. Fits on either side not in use.

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by windguy

[Fifty150]

I wonder if you've got enough leg room.  Ultimately, it will be your wife's comfort.  Aunt Edna could strap to the roof.  The dog could strap to the rear bumper.  And you could have a different set of kids in each movie.

[G B L]

Nice Job. I have the feeling that the foot well hatch will be enlarged and Make your seat very a great install.

[windguy]

Thanks. There's actually plenty of leg room right now in that well area. It extends all the way forward.

My wife has no problem getting her size 6 feet in but my size 12's have to be angled in, but I'll never be sitting back there.

She actually likes having her legs extended on top of the deck. It's like sitting in a low beach chair with your legs on the sand. Very comfortable.

The seat back can be angled back a bit so it has some adjustment. The seat bottom has some decent padding.

For short trips it will work out just fine. Will report back after it's been road trip tested.

[windguy]

For those not familiar with the footwell area hidden in a cargo van, pic below shows the amount of space available.

Plenty of legroom for this jump seat application and storage space.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by windguy

[Fifty150]

My real concern with the jumpseat, and don't let this prejudice you, is the lack of a headrest.  Headrest are not for comfort.  They are lifesavers in the event of a collision.  

[Klingon]

According to Wikipedia ALL TC cargos are/were imported w/ second row seating to avoid a 25% import tax on commercial vehicles.  As soon as they hit US shores the seats are removed and they are quickly and easily turned into cargo vans.  

 

Seems that:  A.)  ALL TC's should be "pre-drilled" to accept second row seating, and B.)  There should be a ton of second row seats, new, floating around out there (I've seen them on Ebay).  Wikipedia says the second row seats were "recycled" after removed.  I find it hard to believe they would take thousands of brand new second row seats and run them through a shredder.....but who knows.  I found a 5-seat TC and bought it so I never really looked far enough into the idea of adding factory second row seats into a cargo van.  Definitely seems safer than anything aftermarket.

[Beta Don]

6 hours ago, Klingon said:

According to Wikipedia ALL TC cargos are/were imported w/ second row seating to avoid a 25% import tax on commercial vehicles.  As soon as they hit US shores the seats are removed and they are quickly and easily turned into cargo vans.  

 

That's a really outdated (and incorrect) Wiki article  -  It says TC's are exported from Turkey (and even names the shipping company) but all Gen 2's were made and exported from Spain.  The Fed cracked down on Ford's evasive tactics for getting around the 'Chicken Tax' in 2013 and I don't believe any Gen 2 cargo version TC's have been imported as passenger vans and then stripped, as they were doing earlier

 

If anyone finds OEM seat mounting points in any 2014 or newer cargo TC, please report here, with some pictures

 

Don

[jrm223]

I haven't seen what the base of the second row seats really looks like, but I'm wondering if these points (red box) might be for seat mounting? Possibly where they latch onto in the upright position, since I know they can fold "flat". I have a toolbox/chest in my "foot" well now because I took out the false floor, so I can't go out to get fresh pics for mounting points inside there. 

[windguy]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:15 AM, Beta Don said:

 

That's a really outdated (and incorrect) Wiki article  -  It says TC's are exported from Turkey (and even names the shipping company) but all Gen 2's were made and exported from Spain.  The Fed cracked down on Ford's evasive tactics for getting around the 'Chicken Tax' in 2013 and I don't believe any Gen 2 cargo version TC's have been imported as passenger vans and then stripped, as they were doing earlier

 

If anyone finds OEM seat mounting points in any 2014 or newer cargo TC, please report here, with some pictures

 

Don

 

We've been over this issue a few times before on this forum. Believe what you want but I'm convinced my van was imported as a wagon model with seats and belts and converted to a cargo model. My only proof if that where the belts were mounted to the side of the van was crudely touched up with paint on both sides. The side plastic panels also have cutouts for seat belts.

 

Below are two pics of the floor with the extra threaded inserts highlighted. Similar to what JRM223 showed above. Not sure how a second row seat is mounted so perhaps others with a wagon model make sense of the hole pattern. There may be more that I'm not showing.

 

 

[windguy]

On 2/12/2019 at 3:55 AM, Klingon said:

According to Wikipedia ALL TC cargos are/were imported w/ second row seating to avoid a 25% import tax on commercial vehicles.  As soon as they hit US shores the seats are removed and they are quickly and easily turned into cargo vans.  

 

Seems that:  A.)  ALL TC's should be "pre-drilled" to accept second row seating, and B.)  There should be a ton of second row seats, new, floating around out there (I've seen them on Ebay).  Wikipedia says the second row seats were "recycled" after removed.  I find it hard to believe they would take thousands of brand new second row seats and run them through a shredder.....but who knows.  I found a 5-seat TC and bought it so I never really looked far enough into the idea of adding factory second row seats into a cargo van.  Definitely seems safer than anything aftermarket.

 

You are right that an OEM seat would be safer than the jump seat and the better option if you plan to use the seat with some frequency.  In my situation, the seat will rarely be used and it's an afterthought with the storage compartments already in place, which I'm not willing to redesign, along with height restrictions as well. The jump seat is also compact and easy to store.

[Fifty150]

http://1stclasseconomics.com/ford-beat-usas-chicken-tax-tariffs/

Customs officials claimed that Ford because so efficient reassembling a passenger truck into a cargo truck that the sneaky task took them less than 11 minutes.

 

[Fifty150]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html?utm_term=.628caf1a017b

July 6, 2018

Brand-new Ford Transit Connect vans, made in Spain, are dropped off at U.S. ports several times a month. First, they pass through customs — and then workers hired by the automaker start to rip the vehicles apart. The rear seats are plucked out. The seat belts in back go, too. Sometimes, the rear side windows are covered with painted plates. Any holes left in the floor are patched over. 

 

Last year, the U.S. Court of International Trade sided with Ford and its tariff engineering. But the government appealed the ruling in federal court, where the case is just getting started. Ford has been paying the chicken tax since customs decided its cargo vans were no longer exempt in 2013. But Ford sounds optimistic after its win in the trade court.  

“If we prevail on appeal,” Ford wrote in a legal note this year, “we will receive a refund of the contested amounts paid, plus interest.” 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fifty150]

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20180812/blog200/668221/tackling-trumps-tariffs

Paul Vandevert is principal of OCHIM Trade Law PLC, an international trade and Customs law firm based in Michigan.

 

As Ford's in-house trade counsel from 2000 to 2017, I advised Ford how it could legally import the vehicles without paying the 10 times higher duty. Ford's imported Transit Connect program is instructive in showing importers some options to avoid falling victim to high tariffs, but, perhaps more important, that there is no easy, one-size-fits-all solution.

 

 

 

 

[Fifty150]

https://autoweek.com/article/detroit-auto-show/vw-and-ford-are-teaming-vans-and-pickups-evs-are-also-menu

 

Ford will develop midsize pickups based on the Ranger and large commercial vans based on the Transit Custom for both automakers. Meanwhile, Volkswagen will build a small city van, similar in size to a Transit Connect, for both automakers. 

Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/detroit-auto-show/vw-and-ford-are-teaming-vans-and-pickups-evs-are-also-menu#ixzz5fSfWtqtd

[mrtn]

The original van does not have the filler floor piece. The cargo floor is in one piece. It’s a converted wagon if there’s a filler piece.

[Fifty150]

Kind of looking forward to what VW will replace Transit Connect with.  That joint venture unibody small pickup could be interesting also.

[PhotoAl]

That will be interesting, please Ford keep VW out of your engine design.  I've had three VW turbos and 2 of the 3 dies prematurely due to engine failure.  The third wasn't so bad but had other issues.  VW's drive nice but Ford knows how to build a turbo motor.  Also have had two with the 2.5 liter 5 cylinder.  Those engine are normally aspirated but have a vacuum pump for the brake booster.

[herb]

On 1/26/2019 at 9:09 PM, windguy said:

Below are my project notes for installing a jump seat to a Gen 2 cargo van.

 

The need has come up to add a 3rd seat so my wife and I can transport a relative (MIL) about 100 miles. My first option was to strap her to the roof rack as inspired by Lampoon's Aunt Edna scene, but I didn't want to affect gas mileage with all that drag plus she's still alive. The plan is for my wife to sit in the jump seat and the MIL will be in the passenger seat until her dementia aided driving commentary puts me over the edge. Then all bets are off. Might be other occasions to need that 3rd seat but guessing not very often.

 

I needed to find a jump seat that had a low profile since I have a hanging rack above that limits head room. The rack is removable but I don't want to bother doing that unless I have to. I found a jump seat on Amazon that's used for forklifts and it met the criteria of low profile, folding back for easier storage and comes with a seat belt. Vestil LTS-C Cloth Fork Truck Seat with Seat Belt

Below is the link for the jump seat. The cost was $122 plus tax.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Vestil-LTS-C-Cloth-Fork-Truck/dp/B0052PNSIY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548552589&sr=8-1&keywords=vestil+lts-c

 

There's ample leg room in the storage area I created and legs can also be extended outward in a more reclined position as an option. I think it will work out okay for short trips. Below are pics of the install that should provide enough detail. The seat was mounted to a 3/4" plywood base that's 18" x 24" using 5/16x1.5" bolts. The base is mounted in the rear to a section of superstrut that's bolted to the van floor using the existing cargo hold-down threads (M10-1.50x80). The front of the base is mounted to the existing holes for the platform (M8-1.25x80). The base is setup to be mounted on either passenger or driver side. It takes about five minutes to install the rear brace and seat so the setup if very easy. Will provide an update after we've had a chance to test it out.

 

 

 

Below is the bottom of the jump seat showing the mounting holes available.

 

 

Below is the top view of the mounting board. The strip of wood gave the seat a little rocker for more comfort.

 

 

Below is mounting board bolted to the seat bottom with four bolts and fender washers.

 

 

Below is a close-up of the superstrut. Ends were bolted to the existing cargo tie-down threads. Strip of black painted wood to the right is to cover the mounting bolts not in use. Fits on either side not in use.

 

Man,  i feel your pain bud ,  sometimes wives just never shut up it's just non stop attacks 24/7 365 ,  it was a good idea to make her sit in the back instead of the passenger seat . They need to be taught a lesson , you may need to implement a ball gag if her lips keep flappin though.

 

Look at the husband in the below pic , you can tell he's praying for death . Just awful 

[Fifty150]

20 hours ago, PhotoAl said:

I've had three VW turbos and 2 of the 3 dies prematurely due to engine failure.  The third wasn't so bad but had other issues.  VW's drive nice but Ford knows how to build a turbo motor.  Also have had two with the 2.5 liter 5 cylinder.  Those engine are normally aspirated but have a vacuum pump for the brake booster.

 

 

VW makes a nicer car, in comparison to Ford.  Very luxurious and comfortable.  Smooth ride.  Well insulated for a quiet cabin.  

 

VW engines should be better, considering their history with Porsche & Audi, but they are terrible.  VW transmissions are worse. 

 

A jointly developed vehicle from 2 companies with weak transmissions should be interesting.

 

1. The Tiptronic Transmission

The Volkswagen's Tiptronic transmission is very modern and uses cutting edge technology. However, it has a few inherent weak points. These have been identified by the manufacturer and steps have been taken to resolve them. The problems with this transmission are hard shifts from gear 1 to 2, erratic shifting from gear 3 to gear 4 and a shudder in the torque converter. These can be rectified by following the Volkswagen service bulletin and downloading the latest software.

2. Solenoid N89 Failure

In certain cases, an important solenoid, N89, has failed. This causes a sudden shift from gear 4 to gear 1, when the gear gets stuck at the shift from gear 3 to gear 4. This causes a sudden deceleration, similar to when the brakes are suddenly engaged.

3. Faulty Temperature Sensor

A faulty temperature sensor in the DSG system of models of the Jetta results in a false negative lighting of the warning lamps on the dashboard. In rare instances, this sensor results in transmission slips, causing the vehicle to shift suddenly to neutral. The affected vehicles have been recalled.

4. Faulty Clutch Component

A faulty clutch component of the mechtronic unit causes sudden downshifts. Affected vehicles have been recalled by Volkswagen.

Before you buy a Volkswagen, you should be aware of the above problems in the transmission and select a model that isn't affected by these troubles. Otherwise you should wait until the problems have been completely resolved by the manufacturer.

 

 

[Fifty150]

3 hours ago, herb said:

 

 

 

Herb, a ball gag may be your solution.  Mine would be a Daisy Red Ryder BB Gun for Christmas.

 

[herb]

16 hours ago, Fifty150 said:

 

 

Herb, a ball gag may be your solution.  Mine would be a Daisy Red Ryder BB Gun for Christmas.

 

 Either one should do the job.

[JonBowerbank]

I would just be worried whether plywood and superstrut are up to collision safety standards in any way shape or form.

 

When I got my 2012 FTC Cargo, the dealer threw in an OEM bench seat and seatbelts for free.  It's built to bolt directly to those thread points in the floor, and constructed of heavy duty steel.  Don't know how much I can trust this build in a head on collision.

[Fifty150]

As a passenger wagon, passenger safety relies on the headrest, seatbelts and air bags.  The headrest is so that your head doesn't snap back and break your neck.  In a cargo van, are those rear passenger airbags still in the van?

 

But I'm sure that WindGuy "gets it".  For what it's worth, I think you did a pretty good job.  Sure, it's not the same as an OEM seat, seatbelt, airbag configuration.  But what he did was a pretty neat mod.  In the old days, I had a Ford Explorer.  Early models were 5 passenger seating.  Many people, myself included, got jump seats and bolted them into the rear cargo bay.  A lot of those mods used UniStrut for the seat mount rails.  

[mrtn]

2 hours ago, Fifty150 said:

In a cargo van, are those rear passenger airbags still in the van?

 

I doubt there even were any. I'm pretty sure the models manufactured for the US to be stripped of seats for cargo conversion were airbag free.