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DonShockley

Failed Door Latch 4 days past 3 year warranty

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Well, don't you know my 3 year / 36000 mile warranty period ended just 4 days ago.  And what did I find when I started to head out for lunch earlier today, my side sliding door on the drivers side was sitting ajar and would not latch when I tried to close it again. So it looks like my vehicle has fallen prey to the failure that they issued a recall for, #16V643000 back on Sep 6, 2016. Now normally with a recall, I wouldn't be worrying about warranty time frames. But there's one problem, supposedly my vehicle had the recall repair installed on Jun 16, 2017 so in theory what has broken is the newly installed recall repair kit. However, when I was investigating the problem, it looks like the plastic on the latches is much more worn than I would expect for parts just a year old. And it doesn't look like the torx screws have any scrattches suggesting they had been removed with a tool, but maybe I am expecting visible signs where there are none. Maybe pros don't let tools slip and leave scratches like I am used to seeing when I work on things.

 

Does anybody have any experience or knowledge on this recall or recalls in general? I am wondering exactly what was replaced, if the work was indeed done and not just radio'd off on the paperwork. And is the dealer done with their obligation just by performing the recall repair once or does repeat of the same failure reported in the recall require them to address the issue even though the warranty period is over?

 

Obviously, it is the weekend so I won't be able to actually contact the dealer and get any info until Monday morning so I have no idea how they'll respond. I just wanted to get a little feedback if possible since this is the first issue like this I have had with any of my vehicles. All other repairs were normal age related failures where you know they aren't covered.

 

Here's some pictures of both the drivers and passengers side latches (drivers side is the failed one). I rarely use the passengers side door which is why the normal wear and tear is so different between the two. But even the passenger side plastic latch shows an awful lot of wear for just 13 months after recall replacement.

 

 

Drivers side closeup.jpg

Drivers side.jpg

Passengers side closeup.jpg

Passengers side.jpg

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5 hours ago, DonShockley said:

Well, don't you know my 3 year / 36000 mile warranty period ended just 4 days ago. 

 

 

Report this to your dealership immediately.  Since there actually was a recall, it could work in your favor.  Dealers can perform an "after warranty adjustment", or avail themselves to some sort of other program to help you.  Start taking notes, which you may need later if it goes that far, on the date & time of your failure, who you speak to at the dealership level and on which date and time, ask for everything in writing (in case you need it for evidence later on), and do not take "no" for an answer.  If someone says no, ask to escalate the issue higher up on the food chain.  Start inquiring with class action, consumer advocate attorneys.  Clearly, this issue is not something that the vehicle buyer is at fault.  How many other cars, with similar sliding doors and latches, do not experience this type of failure?  Since there is already a recall, speak to the NHTSA about your particular situation.

 

http://www2.dealersedge.com/ME2/Sites/dirmod.asp?sid=0EA07745106C4076847B5C35C1AAEF2B&amp;nm=<BR>Advanced+Search&amp;type=Publishing&amp;mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&amp;mid=B502EFAB5C2C4AB5BDB4C5E749BA3B2A&amp;tier=4&amp;id=F0B82731FB5347B8876E5C0411C3D4B9&amp;SiteId=8FE37FB59D10488FB91B2D037740333E

Issue Date: Warranty Administrator for Ford Dealers Oct 2008, Posted On: 9/30/2008

Ford changes the rules and the goals of providing after-warranty policy adjustments
In corporate-speak alphabet soup: AWA (After Warranty Assistance) gives way to CLP (Customer Loyalty Program) and LTC (Long Term Value).
Beginning this month, Ford is implementing a new customer satisfaction tool they are calling Customer Loyalty Program (CLP) that will replace the longstanding After-Warranty Assistance (AWA) program. 

More than just a new name, Ford is also launching a new tool to assist you in making AWA, or now CLP, decisions. A customer scoring system they call Long Term Value (LTV), gives dealership service managers an easy-to-read number that is predictive of a customer's value to both the dealership and to Ford. 

Getting back to the true intention of the AWA, Ford is looking for improved owner loyalty. Dollars spent today on CLP applications should help create or maintain a customer for tomorrow. The new system helps to make sure that our decisions are based on potential customer loyalty out into the future. 

The customer's LTV score ranges from 0 - 99, and is based on customers who:
  • Purchased or leased multiple new Ford vehicles and products during the past 10 years.
  • Financed their purchase with Ford Motor Credit during the past 10 years.
  • Will likely purchase or lease more new Ford vehicles in the future.
  • Will likely finance a new Ford vehicle with Ford Motor Credit in the future.
The score can be found on the customer's CuDL screen. 

The new CLP process does extend the limits on certain decisions and makes them uniform for all dealers to the following limits:
  • 6 years / 100,000 miles (Ford / Mercury)
  • 7 years / 100,000 miles (Lincoln)
  • 6 years / 150,000 miles (Ford Diesel Engines, Ford GT, LCF & F650/750)
With the new process comes a new program code, P18, that must be used for all claims in which a CLP decision was made. While Ford provides generous dealer authorization limits, they also provide a dealer-specific CLP budget. You can find your dealership's budget on FMCDealer.com on the same screen where you look up your 126 and GWMS reports. Based on the dealerships I have reviewed, your budget for the rest of the year is likely to be slightly above what you have spent on AWA for the past six months. 

First the stick - now the carrot
Here is where the program radically differs from the AWA of the past. If your dealership does not spend its budget, the dealership will be credited one-third of the unused budget. It appears that the average dealership will be budgeted about $5,000. While some may be tempted to spend nothing and get $1,666.50 back at the end of the year, they will only hurt themselves. Not only will they leave a number of upset customers in their wake, but they would get almost nothing for the next budget period, since budgets are based on how much you spend. 

On the other hand, some may be tempted to think, "why not spend every dime of your allocation and then some?" The problem there is the way the program works you can only do two incremental claims beyond your budget and they will only pay 33 percent of the claim total in those cases. This would be in line with the typical goodwill practice where Ford paid a third, the customer paid a third and the dealer paid a third. 

An additional stipulation is that all CLP claims require a Customer Notification Form. Ford has been looking for way to combat after-the-fact AWA applications for a couple of years now, and they want to be sure that customers are well aware that they are benefiting from a goodwill decision. Also note- you only have 30 days to submit a CLP claim rather than the past submission limit of 90 or 120 days depending on your authorization level.

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I called this morning and while setting up the appointment, the service advisor made a strange comment that the recall was for the front doors only, not the sliders. I went back to the original recall notice I received and it specifically mentioned the slider latch breaking, nothing about the front doors at all. So I decided to go take a look at my front door latches. They were not very worn at all and I could see a few very small scratches on the screws. It appears that they may have done the recall on the front doors only and never touched the rear door sliders that the recall was intended for at all. I called back and had them add that info to the ticket. Still not sure how it will play out, but I feel a little more confident that I know why it broke, the recall repair was never fully completed. Hopefully once the dealership sees the same thing they'll have the sense to finish the job under the recall and not try to stick me with out of warranty charges.

 

As a side note, if you ever have this problem with your doors failing to latch, here's a way to strap it so the door is secure and the vehicle is drivable. I initially only had a single strap pulling the door in, but was getting momentary "door ajar" warnings on each right turn. Not trusting a single strap anyway, I added a backup but still got the warning with both straps pulling in towards the center. But then I thought to rig the second strap so it was pulling the door forward against the pins on the door frame. That worked much better and stopped all the door ajar warnings. Since my seats were already out, I used the seat base mount for the pull in strap. For the pull forward strap I looped it around the bottom post for the drivers seat belt attachment. And both straps are attached at the door end by looping around the center slider mechanism mount pivot pin. I didn't think to take a photo of that part.

 

20180723_115232.jpg

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The recall I Received was for the Rear sliders Don.   I have yet to act on it , it does not affect my getting a sticker so I have let it ride.

I looked at my slider latches and it looks to me like your left rear slider was not adjusted correctly with a fair amount of rubbing.

The pictures of My latches show no paint damage .  Lots of use and 70000+ miles. If the latches were changed it looks like they were not adjusted correctly.

Keep us up dated. I wish you a good out come.

Left rear slider.jpg

Rt Rear slider.jpg

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GBL: What's that red lube you are using on the locks? At purchase the dealer told me to use white lithium spray on the sliders and latches every 6 months or so. But it doesn't seem to leave much lube behind so I wonder if that may have contributed to the extra wear. If yours look that good at 70K and mine look worse at 29K, it seems like your lube is doing the trick.

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Posted (edited)

They are working Just fine. Not going for the recall any time soon.

Your left slider is definitely hitting something hard. The adjustment must not be right.

This is what I am using it is real grease and stays around.  Amazon has it.

Cyclo Red grease.jpg

Edited by G B L

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Just got back from dropping my TC off at the dealers and so far the dealer response is promising. Although the service manager says it's doubtful the wrong doors were done because the parts numbers wouldn't match and Ford wouldn't have paid for the wrong parts under the recall. But after seeing my photos comparing front and rear doors he said he could understand how it looked that way. But he did say that even under an out of warranty repair on safety issues like door latches, especially with a recall already in place, Ford is pretty good about covering it.

 

It's still going to be a couple days before it even gets looked at so I'm not expecting any more info until then. And I'm guessing there will be some additional wait for parts. But hopefuly I'll get a definitive answer on cause and some kind of answer on coverage in a few days.

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On 7/23/2018 at 4:10 PM, Beta Don said:

Sorry about the above post  -  Tried 3 times to edit it, but the forum won't let me  -  If a mod would like to delete both of these, have at it , , , , I gave up!

 

 I will take them out for you. I try not to delete stuff unless it is spam, offensive, or the poster requested it. 

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Posted (edited)

Just got the word, and apparently the prior good news was just words. After waiting 5 days for my car to even make it into the service bay, and that's 5 days after the appointment I was given with AutoMax Ford of Killeen TX, I got the call late yesterday that it was indeed the latch that had been replaced during the recall that had failed. But yesterday they said they were submitting a request to Ford to cover it and it usually takes 24-48 hours to get an answer. I just got off the phone with the dealer and the answer was NO! The reason given was that the recall parts were only warrantied for a year after install.

 

So for the exact failure that generated a fleetwide recall that happened 4 days outside the standard 3yr/36000mi warranty and 1 month outside the warranty on the installed recall repair parts, Ford will do nothing. It's really making me rethink my plans to do a custom order Transit Connect van next July once my TC Wagon is paid off. It also has me rethinking the trade in vs keep it if the recall repair is only lasting 13 months.

 

So it's going to be $550 for the repair. I made sure to tell them to give me tho old failed drivers side part. I am actually going to increase that cost a bit and get the same part for the passengers side since they were both part of the recall repair and I want to be prepared for a repeat failure on the other side. But if it does happen, I'll see if the repair is DIY or take it somewhere else if I have to. All in I expect to be out around $700, not too bad, but I shouldn't be paying anything for a repeat repair of recall issue.

 

After I finish this post I do intend to do a little more fighting. Starting with calling the Ford phone number listed on the recall notice. I still strongly suspect the recall wasn't properly installed. I also made sure to tell AutoMax Ford of Killeen to make sure to keep the old parts, even if it involved an extra core charge (which it turns out it doesn't) so that I would have evidence if needed when I file a report with NHTSA (? or other appropriate governement recall agency) that the recall repair has the same failure with the new part as was failing on the old part. I drove around for years with my poor puchase experience on a Toyota RAV4 shown on the back for all to read, I guess I can do the same with the poor recall repair experience on the TC posted all over that big back hatch for all to read until I upgrade next year. I guess I'll also have to start doing some more serious research into making that replacement possibly be a Mercedes Metris instead of a Ford Transit Connect.

Edited by DonShockley

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It's amazing how short sighted a company can be  . . . . . and still expect to stay in business.  I'm feeling really good that I made the decision not to let either of my nearby dealers do that recall!

 

Many years ago in Ft Walton Beach Florida a guy bought a Lincoln that he had to return to the dealer half a dozen times to get things fixed and the fixes were all poor, and he got nothing but arguments when he compained.  After a time, he got really frustrated.  The city had parking meters on the main street right in front of the dealership and he went to the city and got a long term lease on the spot right in front of the dealers driveway . . . . I think he made a deal to rent that spot for a YEAR.  He parked the Lincoln there, with lemons painted all over it and of course that made the local television news and then the national news too.  The newspaper interviewed him and he told the whole story and that made the national news AGAIN.  The dealer sued (unsuccessfully) to get the car moved, but he left it sit there for months on end . . . . I was TDY there to Eglin AFB for several months and it was still there when I left.  They sure messed with the wrong customer that time!

 

Don

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2 hours ago, Beta Don said:

.....He parked the Lincoln there, with lemons painted all over it and of course that made the local television news and then the national news too.  The newspaper interviewed him and he told the whole story and that made the national news AGAIN.  The dealer sued (unsuccessfully) to get the car moved, but he left it sit there for months on end . . . . I was TDY there to Eglin AFB for several months and it was still there when I left.  They sure messed with the wrong customer that time!

 

Don

Here's how I responded to my unpleasant buying experience with my RAV4. I knew you had to be careful to not say things that were potentially actionable. I know if you suggest criminality or what people did or did not do that it could be something you need to try to prove in court. So I was very careful to just say how I felt after what happened rather than make charges about their actions.

 

I hope I'm not jinxing it, but I did get a better response from Ford corporate. I called the recall number who then redirected me to Ford Customer Satisfaction and after explaining the situation, and a short wait while they checked the records or talking to the higher ups or whatever, they came back and said Ford would help on the issue as long as when they contacted the dealer that the issue was not due to neglect or abuse on my part. The said it could be another 2 days for that process to complete before a final yes/no determination could be made. It's not even about the money at this point, as shown by the fact that I'll pay extra for a spare part for the passengers side, but rather that a recall repair should actually fix the problem for longer than a year. I have an even better label maker now, I don't think Ford will like the extra size and attention getting graphics that will end up plastered on my back window if they stick with this poor recall repair failing after 13 months and no fix.

 

20120803_173128.jpg

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The door is certainly a safety issue.  How do you file a complaint about a defective part, which the government already knows is defective?  Can you report to the government that Ford is replacing the defective part, with a defective part?

 

 

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE
Washington, DC 20690

1-888-327-4236
1-800-424-9153 (TTY)

image.png.3a629a4a21f35b3850cadcdddde9ae5d.png image.png.f98e26794337229e509fcbd6f0a78bc0.png image.png.a6549a221f8b94b0a917171997c76a80.png image.png.b0d480e01daa70d1dbc3062d9ae71799.png

Submit Feedback >
 

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That's exactly why I told them I needed the failed part even if there was an extra core charge. Repeat failure of the part installed as a recall repair needs to be not only documented in the paperwork but the failed part preserved for failure analysis if needed. Regardless of who ends up paying for the replacement, the failure will need to be documented. If it's just a one off failure, fine and dandy, these things can happen to even new parts. But if it can be shown to be a pattern of repeated failures among different customers  vehicles and different dealers installing the recall repair, that's when failure analysis of the part may provide an answer of why.

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Posted (edited)

Ford is just plain STUPID if they don't properly repair your TC quickly and on their dime . . . . but then, I've had some pretty stupid interactions with two dealers near me since I bought mine, so I wouldn't hold my breath  -  My TC is very likely my first and last Ford

 

Don

Edited by Beta Don

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Sorry to hear that ford is not holding up their end of the stick.  It still looks to me that the new latch was not installed correctly. Is the repair being done at the same dealer that did the recall?  If so it could be a conflict of interest!

Looks like if I replace the latches it will be done by me.

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I'll always try to give the dealer a chance to own up and fix their mistake which is why I took it back to the same dealer. And there's still a chance that Ford corporate is going to make it right. But I do think this is likely the final straw for this dealer. I had been cutting them some slack because they were obviously overgrowing their old service facilities but were in the process of building a huge new one. But it's even worse at the new place. And I wonder if I'm getting the full story on the recall install where the newly installed part failed so soon. That's another reason for getting the failed part back, I'll be able to check part numbers to try to see if it's the pre or post recall version that failed.

 

But one thing's for sure, next year if I stick with my original plan to special order a van with all the bells and whistles, it won't be ordered from this dealer. and unless there's a drastic shift in the dealer's attitude, I'm also going to try to dissuade my stepfather from getting his Lincoln Navigator there even though he doesn't typically use the dealer for his service needs.

 

I understand that sometimes dealers get outrageous customer demands. But when it's so simple to do what's right, and reletively cheap too, I don't know why businesses don't put forth the little bit extra it takes to keep everything running smoothly. Of course I don't seem to win that argument at my own place of employment either. I know that it may be out of the control of the service staff I am dealing with so it's why I don't go raving lunatic on them even though sometimes I want to.

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34 minutes ago, DonShockley said:

 

 

I don't know why businesses don't put forth the little bit extra it takes to keep everything running smoothly. Of course I don't seem to win that argument at my own place of employment either. 

 

 

 

Sounds like you need to go into business for yourself.  

 

My boss ran into the same wall, repeatedly, so he opened his own business.  And now, he has swiftly overtaken his previous place of employment.  Same customers now spend more with us, for service.  I've heard that every business, no matter what you sell, is a service business.  

 

That is the attitude which drives success.  Anything that you can do to make the customer happy, is right.  That more or less explains the success of high price retail.  I look at all of those places which we frequent daily, and see that the successful operations all come out ahead on service.  Even Costco, which is big box, high volume, discount pricing, will allow the customer to return almost anything.  Last year, a woman returned a Christmas tree after Christmas was over.   

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On 8/1/2018 at 8:29 AM, Beta Don said:

I'm feeling really good that I made the decision not to let either of my nearby dealers do that recall!

 

 

Me too! I have no issues with my latches so I'm reluctant to have the dealer make the situation worse. I keep telling them I'll do the recall later on since I don't think there's a time limit on it.

 

@dons - sorry to hear about your woes with this repair. Hopefully in the end you will be satisfied with the outcome.

 

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Well, I finally got my TC back today. Ford corporate did end up covering the replacement of the failed door latch with just a $25 deductible. Of course the dealer took another 3 days after the repair was done to actually get all the paperwork done until I could actually pick up the car. And I did pay out of pocket to get a spare for the passengers side so if it fails I can get the repair done in a hurry, elsewhere if necessary. So I actually ended up spending $180 total.

 

And now, the rest of the story....... I wasn't able to keep the failed part since it was to be returned to Ford as part of the (out of?) warranty coverage. But I was able to take photos of the failed part. Later while I was killing some time before the movie I was going to see opened, I was looking at the photos and noticed something interesting. The part number label showed a build date of 2014 even though the recall was issued in 2016 and I had to wait 4 months for "recall parts" to be available for installation in June 2017. So the recall compliant parts shouldn't have build dates prior to 2016 or 2017. I returned to the dealer and spoke to the service manager about this. He retrieved the part and looking closer, he found that the timing was even worse. The 2014 label was on top of an earlier 2013 label, making it that much less likely to be from a 2016 recall / 2017 repair. Although I think he realized what it meant, he claimed he would have to consult with the parts experts to determine if those were build dates and not some other random number. Yeah, right. And although he produced the documentation of the parts orders and install entries for the 2017 recall repair, he did say he understood how bad it looked when all the physical evidence seems to suggest the repair wasn't actually done regardless of what the paperwork shows.

 

Although he would not come out and admit what I suspect we both knew, he stated he was going to dig deeper to find out why there was apparently a 2014 part that failed. And that IF it appeared the recall repair in 2017 had not been done properly, they would pull the car back in free of charge, install the part I currently have on hand, and refund both the cost of the part and the deductible that I have already paid. And if that's what happens, it is the proper solution for this issue but I shouldn't have to be the one driving this investigation. The dealer should have done all this ASAP once my initial evidence suggested the 2016 repair was faulty.

 

After I got home, I did some further digging by pulling the inside panel on the passenger slider. Although my intention was to check the part date on that side, I didn't get that far. There is a large white seal with a 2014 date on it and sealed edges that have very obviously never been disturbed. There is no way they replaced a latch in this door in 2017 without disturbing this seal. I plan to call first thing tomorrow morning to add that bit of evidence to the pile. I'll also pull the drivers slider panel to see how much they disturbed that same sheet and seal during the recent repair on that side. I understand that you can't know exactly what your employees do at all times and for liability reasons you may not want to make admissions out of hand. But this latest evidence makes it nearly impossible to continue to insist that the 2017 repair was done properly. And although it's an issue between the dealer and Ford, not me, it would appear that now Ford has reimbursed the dealer twice when in reality only half the work has been done that Ford was paying for.

 

And now for the only bright spot in this whole fiasco, my opinion of the Transit Connect itself has risen back up to where it was before the door latch failed. I understand that every vehicle can have issues so recalls don't really bother me if they aren't ongoing issues. I had begun rethinking my plans to special order another TC when this one is paid off next July. A recall that continues to leave safety items broken would be a deal breaker for me. But it is starting to look like it's not really a Ford Recall or Transit Connect problem but is instead a problem with the technician that did the repair at a minimum and maybe a problem at the dealer level. Switching dealers before that next purchase will fix that cause and I can still feel safe sticking with the Transit Connect which I have otherwise fully enjoyed.

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It is great that the Tc is repaired.

I think that both the dealer and Ford are responsible for the mess up.

The fact that corporate did not ask for the latches to be returned would allow a shifty dealer to skimp on the repair.

It sounds like the dealer should do the other side sooner than later.

I hope the next dealer is better.

Maybe waiting to do the recall once the latch fails is the right approach. That way they must do the recall!

Anyway great your issue is solved. 

Nice job with the rear reflectors

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Thanks GBL. And during the course of the discussions of physical evidence of non-repair I brought up how much wear was on my 29k latches as opposed to your 70k, apparently just due to a different lube. I actually ended up pulling up the Amazon order on my phone so he could get the manufacturer and lube info for the red spray you've been using.

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42 minutes ago, DonShockley said:

 

 

 

But it is starting to look like it's not really a Ford Recall or Transit Connect problem but is instead a problem with the technician that did the repair at a minimum and maybe a problem at the dealer level. Switching dealers before that next purchase will fix that cause and I can still feel safe sticking with the Transit Connect which I have otherwise fully enjoyed.

 

There you go.  Most of the time, it is a problem at the dealership level.  Not corporate.  Just one or two employees who think they know what they are doing, but are actually doing it wrong.  Reminds me of how Sears employees come up with their own creative interpretation of the Craftsman Warranty.  Often denying the warranty and refusing to replace a tool, even though they should have simply replaced the tool. 

 

I just had a Wal*Mart clerk tell me that installation of a tire was $13, PLUS mounting, balancing, valve stems, TPMS service, and rotation.....which made it $40 per tire.  Obviously, that was not correct.  I had to get a store manager from inside to come out to the tire shop.  But things like that happen.  Not the clerk's fault.  Mistakes like that are always from top to bottom.  Somebody is derelict when it comes to training, managing, and supervision of employees, whom with the correct instructions, would be doing the job right.  Wars are won with soldiers, but lost by generals.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Update: at this dealership at least 6 employees were involved (so far). GOTTA LOVE DASH CAMS!!!!! 

 

I finally thought to pull the card from my dash cam. Still reviewing, but just came across a big pow wow among 6 guys after they found the problem talking about how "if you put it in not all of it went in" apparently referring to the recall. Which explains the loud "Oh S****! That's your number!" a bit earlier. I'm going to have to pull the card from the rear dash cam and see if I can get better audio from that.

 

That service manager is not going to like me tomorrow.

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Well, rear dashcam was a bust. It's always been unreliable which is why it went to the rear after buying a new one for the front. I had been thinking of stepping up to one of those nice $300 ones and this situation may make that a definite buy.

 

BTW, here's a screenshot from the dashcam. Not trying to single out any individuals or anything so I covered any faces or ID I could find.

 

And I was able to get the audio brought up to hear more. The static with every volume at max is bad, but you can now hear most of it. They were definitely discussing the recall and what doors it was supposed to be on. So it looks like my first hunch that last year they installed on the front and not the sliders was correct.

Staff leaving after problem found 4 (Medium).jpg

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Glad to hear it has been fixed. But I am glad that I do not have to use that same dealer. I would probably be in prison already if I did. 

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