OEM tires and wheelspin

[jrm223]

As I already said, I upsized to 235/65R16 General AT2 tires - they're all-terrain truck style tires & 1" diameter taller than stock, which means they're slightly more difficult to spin than smaller stock tires. And they still break traction, even on dry pavement, with me driving like an old man. So it sounds like you'll need "sticky" high-performance sports car tires for your wife to drive the van, Mustang GT-esque tires on a cargo van, haha.

[Fifty150]

Just like with a Mustang, you get used to "all that power".  You only need to get a few tickets, and you'll learn.

[WillMartin]

Yeah, I'm not used to the kind of awe inspiring acceleration a TC is capable of.  It's a truly intimidating performance beast.

[Fifty150]

We need to start a post for everyone to post their moving violations in a Transit Connect.  I want to see all of those "exhibition of speed" citations.

[mdarren]

On 1/28/2019 at 11:13 PM, jrm223 said:

As I already said, I upsized to 235/65R16 General AT2 tires - they're all-terrain truck style tires & 1" diameter taller than stock, which means they're slightly more difficult to spin than smaller stock tires. And they still break traction, even on dry pavement, with me driving like an old man. So it sounds like you'll need "sticky" high-performance sports car tires for your wife to drive the van, Mustang GT-esque tires on a cargo van, haha.

 

 How's the traction of the general tires on wet roads? I like the aggressive look of all-terrain tires so I'm thinking of putting them on my TC.

[jrm223]

They're pretty decent, and of course in mud, too. I've gotten the van stuck in my own damned yard many times because it gets swampy at times and the General's are a lot better at self-extraction than the OEM Conti's ever were. 

[Fifty150]

OEM tires were only meant to be driven on paved roads, in optimal conditions.  Sure, a little rain is fine.  Your yard is "off-road".  It's mud.  It's swampy.  Glad to hear that with better tires, the van can get out of a yard.  

 

Not as crazy as it sounds.  I've seen it before.  People park on a grassy area.  It rains.  Or they wash their car.  The soil saturates.  Car is stuck.  Happened to one of my buddies once.  He parked in the grass next to his driveway.  He didn't want to waste the overspray and water.  Figured that it was better going into his patch of front yard, instead of running down the storm drain.  Washed his car.  Went to move it.  Tires spun and the car sank into the soft soil.  Got mud all over his freshly washed & waxed car.  I had to go there with my truck to pull his car out.  

[WillMartin]

On 1/26/2019 at 9:21 PM, Fifty150 said:

Over $5,000 after installation.  How can tires be that expensive?

I don't know, and don't plan to find out.  There are plenty of other tires out there that don't slice bread for you, but they cost less.

[williaty]

FWIW, as long as you're a little cautious with your loading and resulting total vehicle weight, you're better off searching for 205/55R16 tires (if you have a 16" wheel). They're the stock size for a HUUUUUGE era of Subaru variants, including the various Impreza models. When I looked for winter tires after buying my van, the offerings in the stock size sucked. So I moved tires over from my previous Impreza (Dunlop Wintersport 4Ds, highly recommended). I did the same thing the following spring with summer tires (Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position S-04, also highly recommended).

[Sampa]

I've got a set of 215/65R16 tires that are nearly new off a Chrysler van that died. They would be nearly 1.7" larger O.D.  I'm not sure how bad that would mess up my speedometer. They might offer a smoother/quieter ride?? Has anybody run this size on a SWB T.C. ?

[Beta Don]

It's not what it does to the speedometer that's the problem  -  It messes up the transmission shift points which affect all sorts of things, not the least of which is how long the transmission may last.  It will also cost you fuel economy for sure.  Modern computer controlled vehicles depend on the tire circumference being very close to what they programmed the computer for to get the best results

 

Don

[Sampa]

Okay, so much for an easy way to use some perfectly good tires I have sitting around. I know they are different transmissions and engines but I did have the shift programming altered at the Ford dealer on my Ranger.

[Beta Don]

I'm sure a reprogram like that could be done with your TC too  -  The problem would be finding a dealer with a tech who knew how and was willing to do it for a reasonable fee.  My various dealer experiences has shown me that not too many dealerships have anyone who really knows this vehicle, nor are they willing to lean . . . . unless you have a warranty claim where they can spend 10 or 12 hours of shop time doing something that should take half an hour and still get paid.  You will hear a LOT of "That can't be done" and then you will come here and read that someone did in fact get it done, but it took a knowledgeable technician and those are in very short supply at most Ford dealerships

 

Don

[Sampa]

How many power train components are shared between the T.C. and Focus? I gather programming might still be different?

[jrm223]

I'm running 215/65R16 General Grabber AT2's on my van, no problems thus far and even they still spin too easily. My van is a LWB, but that shouldn't make any difference. As for speedo error, at 70MPH on the gauge, I'm actually travelling about 74-75MPH on GPS. The hand-calculated error is 1.059% over stock (online calculators show 1.067% aka +6.7%), so lower speeds are closer to what the gauge is showing and below about 40MPH, I can't tell any difference between the speedometer and GPS. To find the hand-calculated error percent, I drove from one of my properties to the other, 83.9 miles apart on GPS and my trip odometer showed 79.2 miles at the end of the drive. 

[windguy]

On 1/4/2019 at 8:43 AM, tcconvert said:

I ended up at Discount Tire, reluctantly taking the suggestion to fit a set of Pirelli Cinturato Strada AS's (a model exclusive to Discount Tires). I Drove off in the 22 degree weather on my new, very unexciting-looking $500 tires for the trip home, expecting to not notice anything different. BIG SURPRISE!

 

The Pirelli's had completely changed the feeling of my van. The steering was lighter. The wheels pointed quickly in the direction I wanted. The van had a much tighter and crisper feel all-around, and maybe equally as welcome was a much reduced level of road noise! This made me realize what crappy tires I had been driving on for the last two years! I have since driven them through some packed snow and over some ice. These things are not winter tires, In truth, they are performance tires, but they do provide a higher degree of grip than the Conti's, and I expect them to be able to get me through modest winter conditions just fine. The best thing is that I feel like I am driving a completely different vehicle!

 

So, here you are guys and gals...Need new shoes? If your needs parallel mine, I think you will find a lot to like about these pirelli's. Check 'em out.

 

 

I followed in TCCONVERT's footsteps (tire tracks) and got a set of Pirelli Cinturato Strada AS's installed today. Stock size.

I've been way overdue to replace the OEM Conti's and planned to do that at 20,000 miles. Just shy by 500 miles and picked up a leak in the left rear tire so pulled the trigger.

20,000 miles is about average for me and tires due to curvy canyon roads I mostly travel to and from the beach.

I've used America's Tire (Discount Tire) for previous cars and I like their service and it's convenient so I wanted to stick with them for the van.

I asked if they would prorate the OEM tires and they said they don't on OEM tires. Only if you buy them separately. New Pirelli's have that with a 70,000 warranty.

Will be interesting to see how well they wear and if there is any reduced noise I can detect.

Now I need to go get the alignment checked. The tire wear was pretty even on the OEM's but I'll error on the side of caution.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by windguy

[Double Nickels]

The dealership is suppose to prorate OEM tires and batteries.  Getting a service writer to do that is a different story.

 

I have found that the identical items are priced different on Direct Tires vs America's Tires web sites.  You can also negotiate with the store, for different pricing.  When you buy online, sometimes WalMart has good prices, as well as Amazon.  Amazon also sells installation at Sears.  Tires ship to the store, not your house.  Then you have an appointment for installation.

[Bill Jackson]

Great, I have nothing but praise for the pirellis I put on my 2012 TC 6 months ago. Best thing I ever did from a handling and ride comfort perspective. They just feel right.

[windguy]

23 hours ago, Double Nickels said:

The dealership is suppose to prorate OEM tires and batteries.  Getting a service writer to do that is a different story.

 

I have found that the identical items are priced different on Direct Tires vs America's Tires web sites.  You can also negotiate with the store, for different pricing.  When you buy online, sometimes WalMart has good prices, as well as Amazon.  Amazon also sells installation at Sears.  Tires ship to the store, not your house.  Then you have an appointment for installation.

 

You make some interesting observations but I'm not really sure what your message is.

BTW - all the Sears store in my area have been closed for a while. They are a done deal.

 

What type of TC do you have - wagon, cargo, year?

 

[windguy]

1 hour ago, Bill Jackson said:

Great, I have nothing but praise for the pirellis I put on my 2012 TC 6 months ago. Best thing I ever did from a handling and ride comfort perspective. They just feel right.

 

Thanks Bill. Glad to hear you like your Pirellis. Always fun when you make the right choice.

I took my first trip to the beach yesterday with the new tires and put them through their normal paces. So far so good.

There are two spots where I would always get wheel spin with the Cont's and did not have that at all.

The Pirellis seem to have better grip and traction, especially on the curvy road. Not sure if that's going to translate into reduced MPG. Will see on that.

 

As far as noise level, at first I thought they were just as noisy at the Cont's but over the course of the ride I'm thinking they might be a tad more quiet, but I think I'm just trading one noise for another as the cargo van is just a noisy vehicle to begin with. That same thing happened when I did some sound proofing. The noise source just shifted.

Will keep an ear on that and see.  Probably the only true way to test that is with a decibel meter of some sorts.

Speaking of van level noise, when I went to get the tires mounted, I removed all my sailing/surf gear from both the hanging rack and cargo floor area so the van was gutted and it was noticeable noisier when it's empty. Having that gear in there really helps dampen and muffle the sound, which makes sense. Just a tidbit.

Will report back when I put more miles on the tires.

 

[Double Nickels]

I have a wagon. Tires have been fine for city driving. I have been lucky with tires and batteries. Only time things like that fail early is when I bought cheap batteries.  For whatever reason, every tire I've owned has lasted beyond 40,000 mile warranty, including cheap tires.  

 

 

My point is that the service writers, for whatever reason, want to sell new tires and make you pay full price for them.  Tires and batteries should always be prorated within the mileage warranty or time frame of the warranty.  

 

And just for anyone in the market, there are a lot of options.  Some walk-in tire stores will price match.  Always good to shop around.

[windguy]

11 hours ago, Double Nickels said:

I have a wagon. Tires have been fine for city driving. I have been lucky with tires and batteries. Only time things like that fail early is when I bought cheap batteries.  For whatever reason, every tire I've owned has lasted beyond 40,000 mile warranty, including cheap tires.  

 

 

My point is that the service writers, for whatever reason, want to sell new tires and make you pay full price for them.  Tires and batteries should always be prorated within the mileage warranty or time frame of the warranty.  

 

And just for anyone in the market, there are a lot of options.  Some walk-in tire stores will price match.  Always good to shop around.

 

Would love to see a few snaps of your wagon. Please share.

 

Regarding shopping around, I agree and disagree. It's always great to get a decent deal when buying something but there's something to be said for paying a little extra for quality work. Especially when it comes to auto repair and tires in this case. Same goes for other services like a contractor for instance. I used a low cost bidder once and it was a disaster. Many years ago I brought my wife's car to a tire shop with a flat tire. I had put the spare on and the tech worked on the car outside of the bay area using a floor jack. I watched the tech use an impact wrench and strip one of the studs. Totally his fault but the shop wouldn't back up their mistake and blamed me for cross threading the lug. I had to go to the dealer to get a new stud installed at my expense. Needless to say I didn't go back to this shop. I've had nothing but excellent service at America's Tire and now they have appointments. It took only 35 minutes to get the tires installed and they handed me the old valve stems in a baggie. Well worth a tip. Plus their pricing is always competitive so I don't worry about that. I value my time as much as the quality of work. At my last oil change the service writer at the local Ford dealer told me that my tire treads were low and need replacement @15,000 miles. I said okay, will you prorate the tires then. He gave me this blank stare and didn't answer. I said I'd email him for a quote, but never bothered and he never bothered contacting me.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by windguy

[Fifty150]

56 minutes ago, windguy said:

 

 

 

 

there's something to be said for paying a little extra for quality work.

 

Same goes for other services like a contractor for instance. I used a low cost bidder once and it was a disaster.

 

 

 

 

 

With auto repair, and home repair, it helps to have a little knowledge before shopping.  Sure, tires have different ratings, but how many of us know what those codes really mean?  

 

I've seen a lot of bad auto repair, done by very good mechanics, who do know better.  Worst example is with an older car that needs a timing belt.  They remove, then reinstall, all the old belts, hoses, thermostat, water pump, etc.  Beautiful work.  Timing belt is perfect, and ready for another couple of hundred thousand miles.  But why didn't they install new parts?  You just spent $$$XXX for his labor. 

 

Or when those shops send you a coupon in the mail for a tune-up.  Read the coupon carefully, and it says things like "inspect ignition system" and "inspect cooling system".  How much am I paying you to "look" at old parts, just so that you can quote another price to replace those parts?  I know a guy who operates a neighborhood gas station with a repair shop.  It's how he makes his money.  They actually charge the customer to remove the spark plugs, look at them, report that the condition is fouled and out of gap range, reinstall the plugs, and quote a price for changing the spark plugs.  Every car, at 50,000 miles, will not have clean spark plugs, and the gap will always be off by a little.  That's why you change them.  Not look at them, then quote another price to change them.  This shop also uses one of those coolant testers,  reports the condition to the customer with a recommendation and quote for coolant drain & fill.  What a ripoff.  I can tell you that all coolant, unless it's new, has a decreased level of coolant properties.  You don't need to test it, to know that after 100,000 miles, you should change it.

 

I love the plumbers who always want to sell you a re-pipe job.  Or you call them for a clogged drain, and they rack up the billing with an inspection camera.  What ever happened to just sending a snake down the line and clearing the obstruction?  After they send the camera, they show you that the obstruction  is a bunch of wadded up paper & sludge, then send a snake down the line and clear it.  Same thing a plumber did 20 years ago, before they could pad the bill with the inspection camera.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Fifty150

[tcconvert]

Since this topic is still going, I'll chime in to say that after one winter and most of a summer season under my belt with the Pirelli Cinturato Strada AS's, I am still very pleased with the performance and would recommend them to anyone looking to upgrade from OEM. Driving on them has been very pleasurable in all conditions. Highly recommended. Note: I do not carry heavy loads, and most of the time I run empty. For me a heavy load might be 200 lbs.

[jrm223]

8 hours ago, Fifty150 said:

I love the plumbers who always want to sell you a re-pipe job.  Or you call them for a clogged drain, and they rack up the billing with an inspection camera.  What ever happened to just sending a snake down the line and clearing the obstruction?  After they send the camera, they show you that the obstruction  is a bunch of wadded up paper & sludge, then send a snake down the line and clear it.  Same thing a plumber did 20 years ago, before they could pad the bill with the inspection camera.

 

Do you remember that house that blew up in Dallas a year or so ago from a gas leak, killed a 12yo girl and injured 4 others? The gas line had been unintentionally put in across a sewer pipe, which was later rodded by a plumber. Obviously you can guess what happened not too long after. That is why sewer lines need to be scoped before rodding - it's not always "paper & sludge" or even tree roots. A buddy of mine works for Atmos and he said that after they replaced all those lines in Dallas last year, they had plumbers scoping every single sewer line to make sure that the new gas line did not go through any sewer hook-ups.