TPMS issues with wheel swap

[sabasigh]

Hey, have a 2018 Connect LWB Cargo van. Got it with stock 16" wheels @ 162k miles and proceeded to install:

Pioneer Head Unit with wifi/wireless CarPlay/Auto Android, w/XM Sat tuner, powered sub

Overhead USB/12v power in shelf, ala: Added USB Power to Overhead Shelf - Accessories and Modifications - Ford Transit Connect Forum

USB power where 12v power was in console. Combined USB & 12v power in rear of van.

Rearview mirror using rear mounted camera with GPS

Additional dashcam w/GPS.

Icing on the cake is the color IPC from an XLT or something like this: Upgrade instrument cluster 2016 - Interior - Ford Transit Connect Forum

 

 

So i've got power/video/sound running everywhere in this van and all worked great no issues.

 

Then i buy a used set of 17" Fusion Hybrid wheels & tires. Run them as is for a bit then TPMS warning light. I go into relearn...can never get past left front tire. It never learns. Then i bought TPMS relearn tool from AMZ. Still couldn't get past left front. 

 

So i kept driving it as is. Most of the time, the following morning the sensors would be fine and i can read the PSI via the Pioneer's OBD2 connection. Then some extended highway driving and i would get a TPMS alert. Sometimes 1 or 2 tires, then eventually all 4.

 

Finally got some tires yesterday and had the shop verify the sensors. They sd sensors were fine. Batteries good, they're sending signals and had no issues getting the system to relearn. They suggested if i continue to have issues, look into the transponder/receiver on the vehicle but i can't find any info on where that is. Sure enough, on a highway drive last nite, get TPMS alert for all 4 tires.

 

Read elsewhere about possible interference so i turned the wifi off on the Pioneer headunit but still have issues. I guess i could put the old wheels/tires back on for a test but before i go do that...anyone know where the receiver is or have had similar issues?

[Don Ridley]

You need to scan for error codes. I any of the sensors lose communication it will set a DTC. You can only read DTCs with a scan tool. Use Forscan if you have it. Otherwise you will  need to find a professional scan tool and read the codes. 

 

Note the sensors will go into sleep mode if the wheels are not rotated in a while. Make sure you are training the sensors after a brief drive.

 

The manual mentions training the sensors with the driver's door open as an option when there are problems.

 

Of course, make sure the old wheels are far away from the vehicle when training the sensors.

[G B L]

Don as usual is correct. 

[G B L]

If the new wheels did the relearn then the frequency is the same.  If switching the tires gets rid of the issue  then the transmitter in the replacement wheels must be weaker .  Then If two sets of wheels are desired  a different set of sensors will be needed.

[sabasigh]

Last drive today the TPMS light was off so i'll wait till next time i get the warning to see if i can pull DTCs

[Don Ridley]

DTCs will remain in memory for a while. Pull them now and then after you get a TPMS fault.

[lowspeedpursuit]

I like the "weaker transmitters" idea. Depending on the year of the Fusion (2017+), even the frequency-matched 315MHz sensors are a different part. If TPMS worked post-electronics-upgrade but pre-Fusion-wheels, that makes interference alone unlikely. Does temporarily running the old wheels stop the alerts?

 

If interference does end up being part of the problem and there's no way around it, I would personally just disable TPMS with Forscan, but I'm not sure if that's un unpopular opininon.

[Fifty150]

2 hours ago, lowspeedpursuit said:

even the frequency-matched 315MHz sensors are a different part.

 

 

That could be the problem.   It could be the right frequency, sending the wrong signals.  If that is the case, remove those sensors.  Install the correct part number sensor for a Transit Connect.

[sabasigh]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:56 AM, Chinatown Boy said:

That sounds weird.  You couldn't get the first tire to relearn.  But a shop said that they were able to.  Did you actually see the shop do it?  I asked, because I don't trust the shops.  Maybe they didn't even try, because at that time, the dash light was off.  So they just told you that everything was fine and working. 

 

i've only tried to train my sensors when the light was on. When i dropped the van off, the light was off and you could read each tire's PSI in the OBD app on my Pioneer. So i doubt they tried anything.

 

I pulled DTC's using Forscan: This Monday Aug 15th date is like 2 days after installing these tires.

===BdyCM DTC B1182:00-28===
Code: B1182 - Tire Pressure Monitoring System

Status: 
 - Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

 Freeze Frame  #1:
-EVENT_TIME: 159021404 s (Mon Aug 15 10:18:57 2022) - Event time
-TOTAL_DISTANCE: 272577 km - Total Distance
-MODULE_VOLTAGE: 14.3 V - Control Module Voltage
-PWR_MODE_QF: Power Mode OK  - Power Mode Quality Factor
-PWR_MODE_KEY: Running  - Power Mode Key State
===END BdyCM DTC B1182:00-28===

===BdyCM DTC B124D:02-28===
Code: B124D - Tire Pressure Sensor

Additional Fault Symptom:
 - General Signal Failure

Status: 
 - Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

 Freeze Frame  #1:
-EVENT_TIME: 159021404 s (Mon Aug 15 10:18:57 2022) - Event time
-TOTAL_DISTANCE: 272577 km - Total Distance
-MODULE_VOLTAGE: 14.3 V - Control Module Voltage
-PWR_MODE_QF: Power Mode OK  - Power Mode Quality Factor
-PWR_MODE_KEY: Running  - Power Mode Key State
===END BdyCM DTC B124D:02-28===

 

I went ahead and clear the DTC's for now.

[G B L]

 

4 hours ago, sabasigh said:

you could read each tire's PSI in the OBD app on my Pioneer

It this is true then the sensors are correct and functioning.  If you get a Tpms Light  then the only way to easily check the sensor power is to put the old wheels on and see if you get a TPMS light.

[Fifty150]

8 hours ago, sabasigh said:

When i dropped the van off, the light was off and you could read each tire's PSI in the OBD app on my Pioneer. So i doubt they tried anything.

 

 

You're probably right.  The shop probably did nothing.  Now you know the value of this particular shop.

[sabasigh]

15 hours ago, G B L said:

 

It this is true then the sensors are correct and functioning.  If you get a Tpms Light  then the only way to easily check the sensor power is to put the old wheels on and see if you get a TPMS light.

The PSI readings may be what's basically saved in the vehicle. They never changed on my 25 min drive into work. Once bout 2 mins from office, my TPMS fault came on.

[lowspeedpursuit]

Brother, what? Your man made no mention of Forscan until he was asked to post codes, the fault appears to have come along with new wheels rather than new electronics alone, and he did make an effort to take it to a professional before asking the internet for help.

 

That reminds me: I can't speak to where it is on the 2018, but the TPMS receiver on the 2010 is behind the glove box. Manual also says a new module needs to be programmed to your vehicle.

[Don Ridley]

3 hours ago, sabasigh said:

The PSI readings may be what's basically saved in the vehicle. They never changed on my 25 min drive into work. Once bout 2 mins from office, my TPMS fault came on.

I think you are closing in on the solution: new TPMS sensors. Try lowering the pressure right before a drive.

 

Have you researched the Ford part numbers for both sets of sensors? Maybe they are different. Also, do you know if the Fusion wheels have OEM sensors? 

 

Try reading the PID for the sensors with Forscan to verify your OBDII app is not doing something strange. I think there are PIDs that show raw data instead of psi. I use the Forscan app on my phone for this type of troubleshooting.

 

[Don Ridley]

So here's what I found:

 

The 2017 Fusion and 2018 TC appear to have different TPMS sensors (at least different part numbers).

 

This chart shows the 2017 Fusion sensor type changed from "std" to "PAL" . The 2018 TC is a "std" type. The website does not explain the difference between the two types.

 

****EDIT***

Phase angle location (PAL) technology

Phase angle location uses additional ABS data along with TPMS sensor data to transmit tire pressure, temperature, position, and directional rotation while the vehicle is being driven. Vehicles equipped with PAL systems utilize the data to accurately identify the TPMS sensors’ location and pressure, which is displayed on the driver display.

 

****END EDIT****

 

The attached PDFs show different TPMS part numbers for 2018 TC and 2017 Fusion.

Ford-Fusion-2017.pdf

Ford-Transit Connect-2018.pdf

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Don Ridley

[sabasigh]

 

3 hours ago, Don Ridley said:

I think you are closing in on the solution: new TPMS sensors. Try lowering the pressure right before a drive.

 

Have you researched the Ford part numbers for both sets of sensors? Maybe they are different. Also, do you know if the Fusion wheels have OEM sensors? 

 

Try reading the PID for the sensors with Forscan to verify your OBDII app is not doing something strange. I think there are PIDs that show raw data instead of psi. I use the Forscan app on my phone for this type of troubleshooting.

I was gonna try to mess with the tire pressure before the fault came on but i had a 12 hr day today and didn't have time before my morning drive. 

 

When i get a chance i will try to get my old stock wheels/tires back on for a test and go for an extended drive. I honestly have no idea what sensors are in the Fusion wheels. I was counting on the tire shop letting me know if they were gonna work or not. I was hoping it was just bad batteries because maybe they sat so long by the previous owner.

 

*Edit: my wheels look like there were 2013-2016 Fusion wheels which appear to use the same TPMS as the 2018 Connect, according to that fordtpms.com site

Part Number:

DE8T-1A180-AA

 

I took a quick gander @ the PID options for TPMS in Forscan but there were like 30 different options and wasn't gonna mess with it.

 

And the new DTC codes were the same exact ones as before. 

Code: B1182 - Tire Pressure Monitoring System & Code: B124D - Tire Pressure Sensor

Edited November 1, 2022 by sabasigh

[G B L]

If the tire is not loosing air the only thing that will set off the TPMS sensor is a loss of communication by the wheel sensor.  When you put the old wheels back on,  if the light stays off the answer will be clear . For whatever reason the new sensors are not staying in touch with the TPMS Module.

Can't wait for the answer!!

As for the anti forscan crap more self-inflicted ass riding.

Edited November 1, 2022 by G B L

[Fifty150]

3 hours ago, G B L said:

As for the anti forscan crap

 

 

 

dinosaurs fear technology and hate it

[windguy]

22 hours ago, LostnTransit said:

This is what happens when the inexperienced start screwing with the electronics of the van and screwing with forscan crap. You're going to have to take it to a professional who knows what they are doing and if by chance you did take it to a professional, then they screwed it up and you need to find someone else. avoid this forascan crap. pretty sure there's codes in the system which need to be erased , then you'll have to replace ALL of the TPMS assuming you have a bad one or more..

 

stupid is as stupid does

[mrtn]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:47 PM, lowspeedpursuit said:

Brother, what? Your man made no mention of Forscan until he was asked to post codes, the fault appears to have come along with new wheels rather than new electronics alone, and he did make an effort to take it to a professional before asking the internet for help.

 

You can't rationalize Half Wheeled Skateboard's behavior. As he personally never asks for help, he tells.

[Fifty150]

And it's working, based on how many people have been installing skateboard wheels in their vans.

 

 

It makes more sense to drill a hole in a hockey puck, then use it as a lift kit.  Works as a body spacer, and as a coil spring spacer.  

[G B L]

4 hours ago, Fifty150 said:

It makes more sense to drill a hole in a hockey puck

And if needed it doubles as an emergency hockey puck!

[Fifty150]

Hockey pucks are 1".  Stack 3.  3" lift kit.

 

[sabasigh]

Ok got home, TPMS light still on. Put on the old wheels/tires, aired them up to 45psi. Didn't retrain or nothing. just let it sit overnite and this morning, the TPMS light is cleared and PSI showing 44

 

Then drove into work where it would almost certainly throw the code by the end of my commute, it did NOT and all PSI rose as expected to 47.

 

So looks to be an issue with the sensors in those wheels. The guy i bought them off from FB goes thru different wheels on his Transit trying out different looks and i'm guessing he probably never put a set of sensors in these wheels. I'll shoot him a note, but feeling better it's not my TPMS receiver or some electrical interference.

[Don Ridley]

Good info. Now we all know a little more about the sensors. Too bad they can't be easily swapped out. I wonder when my 2016s sensors are going to die. I should replace them with the next set of tires.