2800 Mile Report

[tcconvert]

2800 miles in. Have been enjoying my van. Hauling capability is every guy's dream. At least two other people I know want one after seeing mine. Mileage is good. Very pleasant to drive, with excellent handling, even in strong crosswinds. Because of the streamlined shape and  the steering geometry buffeting is minimal, and is far steadier than a 2016 Nissan Altima rental car I have recently driven in high winds. With all the doors for loading, it's versatility is amazing. I'm the envy of many in crowded parking lots. The turn radius is so small I can park in places my Nissan pickups regularly passed up. I can literally swing it 90 degrees into a small slot. The grand view spoils a ride in anything else.

Bad stuff? unfortunately. The Sync system is tragic, often failing to understand simple responses like "yes."  I have had the complete system fail, leaving only the radio operational. Five vehicle restarts were necessary over a period of an hour or so to get it to boot up again.

Then there's the rattling sliding door on the drivers side. The noise presents right beside my head and is quite loud. Perfectly mimics the sound a window rattling in the frame of an old car. The dealer I bought it from was unable to fix it, claiming I would just have to live with it, "BECAUSE IT WAS A VAN."  Really? Is this what they mean by "Ford Tough?" While they had it in their possession they discovered that daylight was showing at the bottom rear of both sliders, and a wiring harness going to the backup lights had been pinched by structures within the mid-line channel which the sliding doors move in. I had no backup lights and was unaware as I drive very little at night.

Frustrated that the dealer tried to put me off about the door issue, I contacted Corporate. They suggested a second opinion. I took the van to a dealership five times the size of the one I purchased from, a hundred miles away. A week later I am still renting a car, do not have my van for work, and get daily calls from the service department telling me they haven't been able to fix it yet. I now believe I know as much about it as they do, and am wondering If I will get stuck with this lemon or if there is a way to demand a replacement vehicle, which I'm sure must be a nightmare procedure.

So here I am, This may be the most versatile, all-around-useful, and interesting vehicle I have ever owned, It's Everyman's dream truck.....and mechanically it's junk. Even certified Ford mechanics can't fix it. I am now deeply regretting my decision to buy my first new American vehicle. As things presently stand, I will be trading off this sled relatively soon and going back to the imports. Maybe you'll have better luck, but at this point I wouldn't recommend one.

[G B L]

Does your van have the black rubber strips on the back of the slididng door? If not a set might take the motion out of the door.

[Fifty150]

One of my friends pointed out that I did a good thing by not getting the vehicle with the Sync system.  He has heard nothing but negative feedback from people who do have it.  But then again, buying the base model XL gives me a lot less to be disappointed with.  Road noise at freeway speeds......I'm used to that with driving trucks.  But your door rattling.  That may be something that needs to be escalated higher up the food chain.  I am afraid to say it, but you may need legal representation, and an attorney familiar with Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act and The Lemon Law.  Believe it or not, one of my girlfriends got a full refund from Chevrolet, 9 years after she bought the car.  I doubt if it's the actual door, or something inside the door.  It could be the mounting system or sliding tracks.  The most extreme trouble shooting scenario is to swap doors with another van, see if your van rattles with the new door, and see if your door rattles with the other van.  Good luck with that.  

".  

[tcconvert]

Don't know about the rubber strips. Haven't had my vehicle for a week now. Dealer #2 calls every day but still reports no fix. I don't think they have a fix. They don't even have a diagnosis. This is my work truck and I'm handicapped without it. Going to call and tell them I want it back. I didn't pay 25 grand to be a beta tester for Ford. I will call Corporate again but I suspect any fix is going to have to come from me, and it will be some kind of kludge. I'm not very hopeful about getting a replacement vehicle and don't relish the time and expense likely required to get one. I'll probably just pay it off and trade it for a loss.

Recently I notice more complaints on this board involving rattles and noises. I suspect this is going to be a growing category with these vehicles. This is a great design. Too bad it has such poor build quality. I guess it's back to the imports for me.  

[tcconvert]

Asked for my truck back this AM. Service department said they are involved with installing some new rollers, and could I give them one more day. I approved. Nothing to lose.

I looked at the Lemon laws, in case I want to go back to Corporate and try to get the vehicle replaced (good luck on that front!). Unfortunately, in my state the law excludes commercial vehicles! Though I am not using it as a commercial vehicle per-se, I discovered, much to my surprise when doing the paperwork at the dealership, it is classified as commercial. I hadn't given it a thought. I will if I ever consider another van! It affects everything - even your insurance.  One might think that classification would apply to how the vehicle is used, not how it left the factory. I used my previous string of pickups in exactly the same manner I use my van, but apparently, when your hauler is enclosed it becomes "commercial." I guess if one wishes to avoid this category you must purchase the wagon, whether you want that configuration or not.

I will be anxious to see if the roller replacement resolves the rattling issue.

[G B L]

Another advantage of the wagon seems to be the relative quiet and very few rattles . Except for all the Junk that has found its way into my TC

[DonShockley]

When I purchased my Wagon I was surprised when Bank of America (the same place I have all my other accounts) rejected the loan because it was for a commercial vehicle. Fortunately, the dealer's supposed lender of last resort gave the same rate on their loan. I was seriously concerned for a while until I got the letter with the reason because I haven't had credit concerns in decades. I was worried there might have been identity theft or something else I didn't know about. You would think that for a non-credit reason like commercial classification they could state that immediately when they issue the refusal.

If my current plan holds and I replace my TC with another one, or similar potential "commercial vehicle", I'll be having words with Bank of America before I go car shopping.

[Fifty150]

I guess "commercial vehicle" could mean different things in different states.  I got "commercial" license plates in The State of California so that I could park in "yellow zone" spaces and drive on streets that only commercial vehicles are allowed to drive on.  My "commercial vehicle" is registered to my name, not a "business entity".  According to the girl at my insurance broker, it does not effect my rates.  Although, the yearly registration is a little bit higher.

 

in CA, any vehicle used to carry passengers has something called a "livery plate", which is another type of license plate, and they are also suppose to have something called a "TCP number".  All of our trucks and vans at work have to have what is called a "CA number" visible on the vehicle.  

 

It's all just about as confusing as which trucks have to stop at the weigh stations.

[mrtn]

I don't get it. The bank should be happier issuing a loan for a commercial vehicle as this has more potential of earning money and securing payments.

[tcconvert]

My FICO score is well over 800.  The bank still turned me down. Went with Ford financing for almost the same rate. One call to my credit union would have had a check overnight, had it been during the week,  but it was late Friday evening, and I wanted to wrap up the financing. My credit union was almost the same rate. I had to convince my insurance company I was going to be using it exactly as I have been using my last three pickups, in order to keep my rate down.

Finally got some resolution on the rattling door. They claimed it was the door rear vertical trim strip that was rattling against the frame (took them a week to get there). I am at a loss as to how a rubber trim strip could rattle against anything, but I have not experienced any rattles since I left the dealership. I took the vehicle back while waiting for parts to come, from Detroit! There will be replacement of the rear rubber trim strip (missing from the door now) and also some weather strippingn somewhere. None of this makes any sense, but if the rattles are gone I will be delighted. 

[tcconvert]

A side note:

During this ordeal I have had to leave the van at two different dealerships. My original dealer only had it for a day, but gave me a loaner - A FORD FOCUS! Yes, the platform our vans are built on. It was a very mediocre driver. And I think a primary reason is that the gearing seems to be different in the vans. I think the vans may also have an extra gear.

The second dealer had my vehicle for a week and I had to rent a car. They gave me a 2016 Nissan Altima with 15,000 miles on it. It was front wheel drive. It was also the worse car I have ever driven - and I have been driving for more than fifty years!

My 75 mile drive home took place in direct crosswinds of 35-40 mph. I was all over the road trying to keep this dog in its place! I surely looked like a drunken driver. I was really surprised as this is billed as a full-size car, and with it's long wheel base and low stance I would have assumed it would be relatively stable in the wind. Not so!

T he steering was just awful. It was very stiff and took a considerable force to get the turn started. The wheels would then want to keep turning and a quick counter force would be required to bring it back to center again. This is all happening in fractions of a second. This resulted in a constant porpousing motion left to right. Perhaps there was something out of whack with this particular car, but I felt it was just a bad design. It was much less sensitive without the wind, but was still real work to drive, and I couldn't wait to get rid of it. 

When I got back into my van again I felt like I had come home!  I have never liked front wheel drive, but the TC engineers really got this puppy right. The only time I am forcefully reminded it's FWD is if I am accelerating with the wheels turned. The steering is tight, but it's possible to handle it with one hand. It's smooth and precise. In a crosswind there is pressure against the side of the vehicle, but only a constant opposing pressure on the steering wheel is necessary to offset it. There is no back-and-forth battle with the steering as there was in the Nissan.  The gearing is also very smooth through the change-up sequence as opposed to the klutzy feel I experienced in the Focus. 

This experience just served to emphasize why it's so easy to fall in love with these vans. This may be the easiest-to-drive vehicle I have ever owned. Truck or car!

 

 

 

[G B L]

Sounds like the Second dealer really took you seriously and did a Relentless search.  The Rubber Strip must be important to the wind action.  I am glad the problem is moving to a resolution.

The Power steering in the TC is electric and could be tied into the computer to mitigate the Torque steer you feel during the Acceleration.  That could happen in the future if ford gets a lot of  customer feed back.

[Fifty150]

I'm at about the same amount of miles in my van.  I don't like the throttle response.  This van really does not have any power.  Kind of weird also to be going downhill, foot off the accelerator, and the RPMs are at 3500.  But I knew that going in.  I experienced all of those conditions on my test drive.  I took the dealership vehicle up & down hills, onto the freeway, and into downtown traffic.  The salesman and I both got a good laugh as I tried entering freeway traffic flow from an onramp,  accelerating to match 70 MPH, then passing a tractor trailer.......pedal to the metal, wide open throttle, tach surging 4000-5000 RPMS, engine whining.......and some girl in a Smart For Two went around me because the van was so slow.

 

But I'm happy.  I'm getting my money's worth out of it.  It is still the most economical 7 passenger vehicle.  Much nicer cars are out there.....at double the price.  And this vehicle is really easy to back into parking spaces.  Yes, I'm one of those annoying people who insist on reversing into spaces, so that I can pull out head first.  Just use to it from backing trucks into loading docks.  Besides, when I'm backing into the space, there is no live traffic in the space.  If you pull into a parking space head first, you have to back out blind into live traffic; which is a lot more dangerous.  Here in The City, civic engineers are reconfiguring parking spaces so that you are suppose to back in, then pull straight out when you leave.  Now all that they have to worry about is people backing into parking meters, trees, and street signs.

 

 

[G B L]

The power curve for the 2.5 non Turbo engine is at 3000 plus.  Coming from a V8 Power 2500-3500
take a while to get comfortable with.  After the adjustment period the performance is fine. 

I think that new parking Idea will only change when the accident happens.  Good luck with that

[tcconvert]

I would agree with a review I saw where the reviewer described the power as "adequate"

For the last 15 years I have been driving 2WD Nissan Frontiers with 4 cyl engines. The last two have been the platform they're still selling. The 4-bangers in those are pitifully underpowered, even when the truck is empty. These things are LESS than adequate, but if you wanted decent gas mileage, that was your only choice (most people here drive the 4WD V6 versions because they don't know how to drive in the snow). Driving at 7000' elevation makes it worse. On one hilly and curvy road I regularly drive I was literally risking my life to pass people. By the time you are up at 60+ mph there isn't much of a top end left. 

The TC is amazing in comparison. It's actually pretty zippy below 50, due to the gearing, and when passing it really doesn't start running out of guts until you start pushing 80. Not bad for a van! Of course, if you are used to driving a V6 or V8 you probably aren't going to be impressed. 

Whenever I had occasion to drive my wife's 5 series BMW i felt superhuman. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by tcconvert

[mrtn]

Frontier/Navara is diesel only over here and it's definitely adequate. I've hauled compact diggers/frontal loaders around behind it (wide dual axle trailer) and had no issues. The suspension is a bit too "truckish" for a daily driver but the steering and transmission are accurate. Shift points are okay even fully loaded.

[G B L]

Mrtn  you are better schooled than most US drivers on small engine vehicle operation. 

When you look at most car and truck engine offerings the Hp's are very conservative.  The fuel consumption is much more important to the EU buyer.

 

[zalienz]

I have about 2600 miles on my 2017 Cargo Van. I can say for the most part, it's been great. Sure, I have some complaints, but overall it's a pretty decent ride for the money. The plus side: It's big enough for my needs, small enough to fit in many places, fuel economy is pretty good (I average about 23mpg on regular, 25mpg on super, unloaded) handles better than I expected with the quick steering, brakes are very capable. New Sync 3 with Android Auto is freaking great. it's pretty comfortable so far. It was a good decision, and a long time coming. I spent 9 months researching and comparing other manufacturers. IMHO, it was the best of the small vans.

Negative sides, just a few bitches, I should have ordered the auto headlights, as mine has the DRL's and driving at night leads you to believe your taillights are on..... grrr...  Front driver side leg room leaves a lot to be desired, and I'm short... left leg just doesn't seem to have enough room.. Bluetooth is a bit dodgy at times, but figured out it's my phone and not the van, Seats are just OK for comfort, but I have a Recaro driver seat ready to be adapted in.... time and money are the constraints there.... again, not the van's fault. I'm going to upgrade the audio system with rear speakers, amp & a sub, possibly add a aux AGM battery under the rear floor extension for camping, etc.....  Insulation and some sort of paneling for the rear, still undecided, sorry no disco ball Fifty150, I'm a rocker...lol, maybe a Dream Theater theme... seriously probably more of a Ford Cobra theme... lol

Still, having fun. Thanks for listening.

Peace

[Beta Don]

Overall, I'm pretty happy with our van  -  We also have about 3,000 miles on it now.  My last several vehicles have all been 4 cylinder cars, so my power expectations aren't that great.  When we were shopping for a used TC, I only looked at 2014 and newer models because I think in a vehicle of this size, the 4 banger really needs a 6 speed transmission and the combo of the 2.5 and the 6 speed works very well

I always try to never back into any parking space and I never back into the garage.  If you pull in forwards into any tight space, it's easy to get centered and to know when you're all the way into the space.  When you back in, those are much harder to do  -  How many times have you seen someone going forward and back 3 or 4 times trying to get centered when backing in?  For me the big advantage is I can back out in my own tracks without even turning the steering wheel.  You wouldn't want my wife trying to back in next to your car!   

Don

[Fifty150]

11 hours ago, Beta Don said:

 

I always try to never back into any parking space and I never back into the garage.  If you pull in forwards into any tight space, it's easy to get centered and to know when you're all the way into the space.  When you back in, those are much harder to do  -  How many times have you seen someone going forward and back 3 or 4 times trying to get centered when backing in?  For me the big advantage is I can back out in my own tracks without even turning the steering wheel.  You wouldn't want my wife trying to back in next to your car!   

Don

 

If you have all the space in the world, and don't worry about oncoming traffic that will not yield, then pulling straight into a space and backing out is fine.  Here in The City, we just don't have the luxury of big parking lots.  Turns are tight.  Space is limited.  And nobody cares that you're backing out.  They keep coming, and if you back into them, it's your fault.  And in today's world where you're parked between a couple of SUV, trucks, or vans.....well, you can't see anything trying to look over both shoulders at the same time.  Even if you have a backup camera, the view angle is only so wide.

 

 

[Fifty150]

23 hours ago, zalienz said:

 sorry no disco ball Fifty150, I'm a rocker...lol,

 

You have no idea what you're missing out on.  Disco balls, mood rings, and lava lamps rule.

[zalienz]

Oh, I have an idea....  not a disco fan but mood rings and lava lamps.... bring it

[Fifty150]

That's the way, uh-huh uh-huh, I like it.

[DonShockley]

45 minutes ago, Fifty150 said:

You have no idea what you're missing out on.  Disco balls, mood rings, and lava lamps rule.

...... Pet Rocks, and digital wrist watches with red LED segmented numerals that you had to cup your hand over to see in daylight.

[Fifty150]

Solar powered calculator watch, with keys so small that you can't really use it.