Almo Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Hi Guys, wondering if any one has had this issue that started today. I start the engine as per normal (it's a good starter), it runs for about 5 - 10 seconds then just stops dead. No spluttering or anything, like some one turned the key off. Then it will turn over but refuses to go. Not even a cough. After trying for about 5 - 10 minutes (luckily my battery is good) it will suddenly go but can be a bit hesitant to rev out for a start. It happened twice today from a cold start. Once going it's fine. You can stop and start it again no problem. So I'm wondering if it's a fuel pump issue? or if an air bubble is developing in the system somewhere when it sits maybe? Electrical/sensor issue? Any ideas much appreciated on where to start looking. Ps. I did a service on it about 700km ago and replaced the fuel filter. At the time I just filled the filter with diesel before I fitted the hoses, no bleeding was done. Not even sure how to bleed this system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almo Posted May 27, 2019 Author Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) It appears air is leaking into the system when the engine is at rest. It goes fine around town starting and stopping but after 3 or 4 hrs sitting it does same thing, cuts out after idling for about 5 seconds. I've worked out that if I give it some fuel when cranking and rev it straight away from a cold start it will keep going once fuel pressure is up. Anyone got any ideas on how to ascertain where the air will be getting in? I dont want to go replacing fuel lines unnecessarily etc. Everything looks OK on a visual inspection. When I changed the fuel filter the plastic connectors on the ends of the three lines were really hard to get off and took some force so wondering about them too. That was a while ago though. Edited May 27, 2019 by Almo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almo Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 An update on this: The air must have worked it's way out of the system as I can now start it with no throttle and it keeps going. Glad I didnt start replacing fuel lines and such like. The air must have got in there when I replaced the fuel filter. Never stop learning eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Great! Sometimes no action is the right plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almo Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 2:46 AM, G B L said: Great! Sometimes no action is the right plan. Unfortunately GBL I was premature with that comment. A week or two later the issue was back but worse than before. But... there is a happy ending to this story. Last weekend I did some investigating and noticed the plastic outlet pipe connection coming off the top of the fuel filter was on the loose side. Kinda ironic considering it was a bitch to get off when I changed the filter recently. My hunch was the two O rings inside the connector were now damaged/worn from the removal process. So I cut the plastic fuel line with a craft knife removing about six inches of line and the offending connector. Then I cut a piece of 10mm I.D. rubber fuel line the same length and fitted it in place using hose clamps. This gave me a good seal around the filter outlet pipe and the cut end of the plastic fuel line. I also used Heldite on the fuel line end. I picked the O rings out of the connector and the lower one appeared to be damaged slightly. Not badly but probably enough for air to sneak past. So far after a week and about 5 cold starts I haven't had a hint of bother. So hopefully that's the end of the saga. mrtn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Well I get to say Great again and add sometimes action is the the real answer! Almo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almo Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Well would you believe this issue has raised it's head again and it's got me scratching mine! I dont have many regrets in life but one is replacing that fuel filter! I'd like to go with a more simple after market fuel filter set up with one line in and one out. Does anyone know why the OEM filter has the third connection for the tee in off the return line? I'm guessing it is to balance out the fuel pressure or circulate fuel in the system? I've replace two of the three plastic connectors with rubber fuel line and hose clamps now. The last one to do is the line in to fuel filter from the tank. I hope that is the one that is letting air in or I really will be stumped. If anyone else has had this starting then dying issue I would love to hear from you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Is the lift pump on the engine or in the tank? If it is on the engine and the filter is on the suction side then air will get in. Can you tell me where the three hoses go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almo Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 On 11/17/2019 at 2:42 AM, G B L said: Is the lift pump on the engine or in the tank? If it is on the engine and the filter is on the suction side then air will get in. Can you tell me where the three hoses go? The three connections on the top of the filter are: Line in from tank/line out to injector pump and a third line that tees off the return line to the tank. Regarding the lift pump business I did find this response in another forum after i did some googling. It suggests there is no lift pump: I had starting problems with my Mk 3 Galaxy and just found a fix. The Mk 3 and a few other fords have no lift pump. Fuel is drawn in using the high pressure pump beside the engine. My galaxy turned over fine and started for a few seconds and then stopped. I found that the fuel line was empty. When I primed the line there were bubbles visible in the line. The problem was that there was a pin hole in the flexible line connecting the fuel filter to the rigid line running back to the tank. The hole had been caused by wear from the flexible line rubbing against a loom of wires (i.e. bad design:mad: ). If there had been a lift pump it would have been evident because there would have been a diesel leak but because there is no lift pump air was being drawn in causing the line to empty back to the tank when stopped and bubbles in the line when running. It was a tough one to diagnose and the normal 'fix' of installing a check (a.k.a. non-return) valve near the high pressure pump did not work. I discovered the hole when I heard a quiet hiss when priming the line using a hand diesel primer pump. Find a quiet spot to do this. The fix in my case was simply to install a fresh piece of tubing between the filter and the hard line but make sure you find the leak first. The same issue could be caused by a leaking filter housing or a bad o-ring seal in one of the filter connectors. I know of at least one case where a guy sold his S-Max because of a similar problem that could not be fixed. Hopefully this will be of help to someone. Ive replaced the third and last plastic line/connection (the one from the end of the steel fuel line coming from tank to the filter) so will leave it 24 hrs and see how it goes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 The lift pump is built into the injection pump . If there was an air leak on the supply line it would cause the problem you are having. time will tell, keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almo Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 It passed the 24hr test... but I'm not counting my chickens yet, done that before When I replaced the last plastic connector pipe with rubber I also put the original fuel filter back on. Luckily i dont throw things away. Can be replaced in a couple of months time once I'm happy I've cracked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almo Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 Passed the 48hr test tonite... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Sounds Promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almo Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 I'm replying to my own thread nearly 3 years on incase anyone has a similar issue and wondered what the final outcome was. So the whole problem started when I replaced the fuel filter. With most issues it generally your own intervention that has created it lol. When I got the new fuel filter the threaded hole on the bottom of it for the water trap was not the same thread size as the old filter so the moisture trap would not screw on. So I just got a regular hex head engineers bolt and screwed it in there with a washer and some sealant on the bottom of the filter. This seal was not 100% air tight and that was where the air was getting in. So after all the shenanigans listed in the above posts (which resulted in me prematurely wearing out the brushes in my starter motor!) I re-installed the original fuel filter and drove round for about half a year before I was brave enough to swap it out for another new filter, but this time I had the correct thread on the bottom and was able to fit the water trap. I haven't had any bother since. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Thanks for the follow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty150 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 21 hours ago, Almo said: this time I had the correct thread on the bottom It usually helps to have the correct part. Whenever you don't have the correct part, and "try to make it work" - you take a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.