Jump to content
   
escobar

Help replacing piston rings

Recommended Posts

hello. I have a cylinder 2 misfire and replaced the plug and pack and had no improvement. I did a compression test and found it only to have 85 psi. The rings are shot and was wondering If I can drop the piston from the bottom, by removing the oil pan. I'd rather do that then pull the engine. any advice would be great. thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
   

did you do a wet compression test? (shoot oil into the Cyl then check the Compression) if it goes up then the rings are bad, if it does not then the valves are bad.

The Piston comes out through the top of the block after pulling the head. If the valves are bad the head has to come off any way

Good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the reply. yes I did do a wet test, when I dumped some oil into the cylinder it went up to about 92 from 85psi. when ordering new rings, should I get standard or .020 or .040 oversize? thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you get the Head off you need to measure the Cyl to determine if it was bored out or not. How many miles on this rig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello escobar. The first thing you should be doing is buy the Ford Transit Connect workshop manual. Next, the cylinder pressure did not go up enough during your wet test to convince me it is a worn ring or cylinder problem. Here is a test to check your valves. Remove the sparkplug and pump air into the cylinder. You will need to have a tight seal around the sparkplug hole, a cone shaped rubber adaptor around the air chuck is what is needed. You will need to make sure the valves are closed so taking off the valve cover might be the best way to make sure. Pump in the air and have someone listen for air coming out the exhaust pipe. If you hear or feel any air coming out, it is a bad exhaust valve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello escobar. The first thing you should be doing is buy the Ford Transit Connect workshop manual. Next, the cylinder pressure did not go up enough during your wet test to convince me it is a worn ring or cylinder problem. Here is a test to check your valves. Remove the sparkplug and pump air into the cylinder. You will need to have a tight seal around the sparkplug hole, a cone shaped rubber adaptor around the air chuck is what is needed. You will need to make sure the valves are closed so taking off the valve cover might be the best way to make sure. Pump in the air and have someone listen for air coming out the exhaust pipe. If you hear or feel any air coming out, it is a bad exhaust valve.

Great Information . In any event the head will have to come off the engine. The next question is how many miles on the car because replacing the valves will cost a fair amount and doing a in car job will take twice as long as out of the car. If the Van is in good shape it may be worth a fully re manufactured engine . Pulling the head on a DOHC engine that has a Timing Chain is much more involved than a push rod or a rubber timing belt engine. Keep us posted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the good replies. Where is good place to get the repair manual? I have looked locally and havent found one yet. This is a 2010 transit and is in pretty good shape. Its got 180,000 miles but its mostly all highway miles. I did a similar repair to a pushrod engine and it wasnt bad. I was concerned when I took off the valve cover and saw the timing chain. Basically, the spark plug on the cylinder that has low compression came out while I was driving. I replaced the coil pack and all plugs but the misfire came back. I then did the compression test and found out how low it was. The threads were not in good shape on that cylinder so I helicoiled a thread in and got the plug in there good and the psi was still low. I will try to induce air and see if the valve is damaged. Would it be easier to just pull the engine? thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello escobar. ebay has a set of both the workshop and wiring manual for sale. I would also check with your Ford dealer to see if they are still available and the pricing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea i saw that, I wasnt prepared to spend $180 on a manual. seems a bit high but I need it. I have decided to pull the engine and just take it apart and see whats wrong. Then order the parts and replace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a good plan, Just keep in mind that a fully Remanufactured engine is around 2500 ready to install. it is very easy to spend a large sum of money and get a repaired engine with 180000 miles and no warranty . Once the engine is out do not forget to check the seals on the Torque Converter for the Transmission as it will be easy to get to with the engine out.

You will want a new timing chain and chain guides, I think the Head bolts are torque to yield and will have to be replaced with the head gasket

The plot thickens can't wait for the next chapter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the manual coming. Regardless, I need to pull it and see whats going on. Its idling really rough and has trouble starting every now and then. There are tons of engines on ebay for 3-500 used. They come with a warranty. I guess I will just have to price it out and see. The van is only worth 3-4K so a 2500 engine is out of the question. I just want to fix this issue and get some more mileage on it. It will really depend on how much damage it has on this cylinder, but I really feel its a exhaust valve. We will see this weekend!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Esobar. Reading through your thread it struck me that you should do a leak down test *before* you make a decision to pull the head or the complete engine. You don't have enough information yet to establish what is wrong, and removing the engine can sometimes make it more difficult to diagnose what is happening. I also think you should try to figure out what is causing your misfire before you go any further. The misfire, hard start and the low compression could all have the same cause, but you don't know that yet. Diagnosis is going to be a lot easier while the current engine is installed and running than after you remove it.

There are so many things that you don't know yet and that might be behind your troubles. Here are just some examples:
- Maybe you have a fuel delivery problem to cylinder #2. Maybe that cylinder is getting flooded with fuel. Maybe that wiped out your rings. (Do you smell gasoline in the oil?)
- Maybe your helicoil didn't seat 100% and you are losing some compression there. (Is there evidence of blow-by past the #2 spark plug?)
- Maybe you have some sort of head gasket sealing issue. (Usually head gasket leaks will show up as low compression on two adjoining cylinders, but the leak down test will tell you this - or you could get a test kit to check for hydrocarbons in your coolant.)

If you don't have the equipment to do the leak down test you could have a shop do it for you. It is hard to solve ignition/fuel problems without an engine installed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great post, thanks for the info. I will perform a leakdown test tomorrow. When I did the compression test the gauge held 85 psi so I assumed the threads were ok. As far a blow by, the plug looks ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Escobar The leak down test will be good

What was the Compression of the rest of the Cylinders

Head Bolts FPG ES72207 $55.80 Head Gasket FPG 26250PT $49.50 Exhaust Valve SEP V4718 $13.49 Each

These are current prices from NAPA for Valve Parts for your engine

If there is a good used engine with less than 100000 miles and a guarantee in your area It could provide a Reasonable Choice.

180000 Miles is equivalent to 4500 hours. A Fair amount in engine life.

If you do take it a part make sure you check the Timing Chain and the Guides and tension-er for ware

Waiting for the next chapter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been reading the book and there are tons of special ford tools they show. have you guys found that you can get by without them? I think no matter what the engine has to come out and if I decide to rebuild or not it will be easier to do out of the car. I was thinking of replacing the timing chain either way while its out as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Escobar

Any more news?

I went on EBAY and you are correct there are lots of engines. There was one in OHIO 81000 miles out of a Focus that looked very good , The Used engine could be a very good deal .

Keep us Posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea I saw that one. I really want to just overhaul my current engine so I know everything is new. While the engine is out Im going to do the timing chain as well. So far we worked all day saturday on it. Went to advanced and rented some tools, had a hell of a time getting the ball joints separated on the front left. Got them apart with a craftsman 2 jaw puller. Then the half shafts had to come out. Got the passenger side off easily, unbolted the brace and popped it out. The driver side however will not budge. I am looking at this on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281490254023?item=281490254023&viewitem=&vxp=mtrto go around it so I can use the slide hammer. I guess that circlip on it is really tough to get out. Do you know any other ways to remove it? Also, I cant decide if I want to lower the engine out or lift it out from above. The book says to drop it, but I have always pulled engines out, and this way I can unbolt the AC compressor and not have to discharge the whole AC system. Anyone who has pulled an engine??? thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the engine wants to come out the Bottom with the Trans. not totally sure. You should be able to unbolt the AC compressor and tie it off with out discharging it Advanced does not have that slide hammer?

The cost of Doing a recon on your engine will cost a lot of money . If you need a piston or a cylinder head it will approach the factory Recon fast.

That engine on eBay Came out of a focus Wreck and could run perfect 80000 miles is 2000 hours half of what your engine has on it

Keep up the good work .

You will know more when the engine is out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so i ordered that piece off ebay and it fits thank god. got the slide hammer from advanced and it threads into it so I should be good to get that driver half shaft out. I was going to pull it up and out but there are 2 hard lines going across the engine for the power steering I dont want to mess with, so I will drop it out the bottom as the fsm suggests. Once I get the engine out and head pulled I will have a better idea of whats going on and can decide what to do. I really want a new engine or to overhaul mine, I need to know its all in good shape as I only want to do this once! Where is a good place to shop a new engine at? thanks guys

Edited by escobar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes sir, finally got the engine out. what a pain. Got the tranny off and engine on stand. Going to start tearing into it. I'll let you know what I find.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I got everything taken off and the head removed. It all looks good. It was just the spark plug threads. Going to take it to a machine shop and see what they can do. Im going to do the timing chain and guides as well as a bunch of small stuff, do you think I should pull the pistons out and look at the cylinders and replace the rings as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Head is off, New exhaust valves easy to do while it is at the Machine shop. Look at the bearings, rods and mains

Is there a ridge at the top of the cylinder?

watch the parts cost, a reman is around 2500.

keep up the good work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so I found a good shop in colorado that sells used heads. they are going to rebuild and redeck one for me so that will all be like new. mine did end up having a cracked valve. Went ahead and ordered new tensioner, belt, timing chain and guides, head bolts, plugs, head gasket, piston rings and connecting rod bearings. I'll post up some pics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds Like a good plan.

You will do the front engine seal when the timing cover is off. Don't forget the rezr

main seal. A water pump is easy while you are there.

You might want to look at the transmission seals while the engine is out.

You are all in now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×