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David Edmondson

Cylinder #2 Misfire

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2013 TC, 267,000 miles. Had my local shop pull the code after engine light went on. I had replaced the plugs a week or so earlier. Changed plugs around, misfire still at #2. Swapped coils, still #2. Bought new coils, still #2. Replaced #2 injector and check-engine light went out on its own. But it came back on a couple of days later. TC seems to run fine, but idles rough. It doesn't start easily now after I drive it a while. I can pull the coil connector or injector connector from #2 while it's idling and there's no change in how it idles. If I do the same with any other cylinder, engine dies. Hard to believe I'm running on only 3 cylinders as it doesn't seem down on power at all. 

 

I'm probably going to have to take this in to my local mechanic but would welcome input. 

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267000 miles , with all that you have done a compression test is next.  If the readings are near normal for all cyl then the valve springs are suspect.  If no 2 is low and the result does not change with a wet test then the valves need refreshing at the least.

Keep us posted

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Mechanic suspects low compression as well. I'm taking it in on Thursday morning. Thanks for the input. 

 

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Cylinder #2 has low compression - about 60. I think he said the other three are like 160? I don't remember the exact number, but the other 3 are much higher. Seems like a valve issue rather than rings as if it were rings, the other 3 would likely be low compression as well. Mechanic says that if it's a valve and because I've been driving it like this for a couple of months (3500 miles/month), a valve is probably burned. 

 

I'm considering my options. This is my work van and if I tear into the engine, I'll need it back running within 3-5 days. Mechanic thinks a new head would stress the bottom end. This doesn't seem logical as it shouldn't put additional compression on the engine - or would it? If so, I should probably do new rings and bearings, but I'd rather not. I'll look for a used engine as well, but I don't have a hoist, so would have to add in the cost for one. 

 

Thoughts?

 

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There are lots of U-Tube videos on the swap, Lots of places rent hoists.  To put a head on that engine is no small task in the car. A the mileage a timing chain kit is needed .  A good used  engine could provide a reasonable outcome.  If you have access to a reputable salvage Yard a low mileage engine and transmission might be a very fast way out of your situation.  

Keep us posted. 

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Thanks for your input! I'm going to continue driving it for as long as I can, while looking for an engine. I'll update when I make the change.

 

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21 hours ago, David Edmondson said:

Cylinder #2 has low compression - about 60. I think he said the other three are like 160? I don't remember the exact number, but the other 3 are much higher. Seems like a valve issue rather than rings as if it were rings, the other 3 would likely be low compression as well. Mechanic says that if it's a valve and because I've been driving it like this for a couple of months (3500 miles/month), a valve is probably burned. 

 

Thoughts?

 

Your mechanic should have squirted a little oil in the cylinder and ran the test again.  If the compression went way up, then it's probably a broken ring and not a burned valve.  If you've been driving on a broken ring for 3,500 miles, that cylinder is probably toast and you'd want another engine.  If it's just a burned valve, I don't see any problem with a valve job  -  If that's possible  -  or a new/used head if it's not.  A good head on an old engine shouldn't cause any problems

 

But . . . . if it was my van . . . . with 267K on the motor I would either buy a good used, low mileage engine (something out of a wreck with less than 100K on it, or . . . . I would junk the van and buy me something newer.  With 267K on it, it's going to soon begin nickel and dimeing you to death . . . . and after you spend $1K to $1,500 to get a newer engine put in it, you'd probably keep spending money on it for much longer than you probably should.  There comes a time in every old vehicles life when it's time to stop throwing good money at it and move on to something better  -  If you're not there right now (I think you probably are) you're very close to it and now is not the time to spend a big chunk of change to get it running again

 

Don

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If  you have a preference for the generation 1 vans then how much you spend is dependent on the condition of the body and chassis.  Here it is not the mileage but the years of road salt and other agents that determine how long you can keep a car or truck.

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Got a used engine with 31,000 miles on it for $850. In the midst of pulling the old engine now. The most difficult part? Figuring out how to disconnect the hundred electrical and tubing (EGR, etc) connectors. I'm two days in and hope to have it done this week. 

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Cool !Take your time and take a lot of pictures that will make the install go easier. 

Keep us posted the  progress!

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Four days in and progressing well. I pulled engine and transmission from below the van, have now connected new engine to the transmission and have them back on the mounts. I decided to get all new hoses, along with the new gaskets. Hoses were over $800! Holy fu…! Now I have to wait for parts. They may not be in before the weekend, so finishing this week is not going to happen. 

 

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Good news and good move on the hoses and gaskets.  If not replaced guaranteed to have small leak in the most difficult to replace hose.  Easy to access hoses never break!

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This should be a once in the ownership of a vehicle event so do a good job.  you should get lots of time and miles out of the re-power.   It will happen soon enough !

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Smart move replacing all the old hoses and gaskets  -  Big money now, but if you want long term reliability, it's the only way to go and it's pretty obvious you're wanting to drive this van for another 100k or more, so . . . . . smart thinking!

 

Don

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Finally got everything reconnected. Turned the key - nothing. Dash lights come on, but no crank. Wondering if there's a key reset issue when installing a different engine.

 

Also, the crank pulley is not aligned. I removed the cam cover. Installed timing pin and when I turn crank until it hits the pin, the cams are aligned properly, but the pulley doesn't align with the hole - so the relationship between crankshaft and camshafts is fine. The engine is a 2008, and although it has low miles, a crank pulley can slip over time. As long as the position sensor isn't removed, the engine could run just fine. Now that I'm putting a new sensor on, there's no way to time it until I get that pulley properly set and the pulley bolt does not want to budge. But that shouldn't prevent the engine from cranking. 

 

Any ideas? Looks like it's time for me to invest in an obd reader. Also, ideas on removing the crankshaft pulley bolt? I'm using a 1/2" drive electric impact gun and it's not working. 

 

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Posted (edited)

First find the starter sol and see if the engine cranks with a jumper switch if it does see if you get a spark.   Be  very careful about loosing the Crank nut .  The crank gear is only held in time by the compression of the nut.

This was a good running engine engine right?

You definitely need a decent  scanner.

 

Edited by G B L

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Got it cranking, but the timing is obviously off. There's evidence the crankshaft pulley has slipped. Had this happen on my Jeep a few years back - the inner and outer parts of the pulley have a rubber piece separating them. As the rubber ages, the pulley can slip. It doesn't harm anything as long as you don't mess with the timing, but it throws the timing marks off so you can't rely on those to set the crankshaft position sensor. I'll order a new pulley and hopefully get a chance to work on it this week. I've neglected my paying job to work on this van, so I have to play catchup this week. 

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Posted (edited)

If you pull no one plug and bring it up to compression you can see how much the pulley slipped. 

Make sure the engine does not move when you change the pulley , there is no key in the crank shaft to locate  the timing chain.  If the engine turns the cam timing will be off.

Edited by G B L

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Zero compression, all four cylinders. This is where I cuss. This is my work van and I've already lost 3 weeks. O'Reilly's shows and rebuilt long block for $2500. I'll shop around. 

 

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On 5/27/2020 at 7:10 PM, David Edmondson said:

I'll shop around.

The engine you bought was it guaranteed to run? The long block won't be bad, but I cannot believe you can't find  a very good running take out for less, buy passing a lot of work.  keep us posted

 

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New engine is in and everything is running really well. Since I did the job twice, I changed how I went about it the second time. The first time, I removed the engine and transmission as a single unit, lowering them to the ground and sliding them forward, then separated them, reversing the procedure to install. The second time, I separated the engine first and removed it from above - this was a much easier way to do it. 

 

I didn't look around too much as far as pricing. After a bad experience with the junkyard engine, I decided I'd buy a remanufactured unit. O'Reilly's had them at about $2,500, while the dealership had it for $3,100. Seemed like the extra $600 would give me more peace of mind as it came from Ford (I don't know if this is reality with a rebuilt engine), but I learned that Ford would just send what they had. And what they had in my case was a brand new engine, not remanufactured. I drive at least 40,000 miles per year, and am planning later this year to add refrigeration to my van for my business. Knowing I can replace the engine now at a reasonable cost, makes me feel better about spending money to upgrade to refrigeration. 

 

I found a couple of things really cool with this job. First, the wiring harness that connects to the coils and fuel injectors can be completely removed, which helps to get a lot of confusion out of the way. The other thing is, you don't really have to mark each wire coupling you disconnect, as the harnesses are laid out in a logical fashion and all of the connectors are different - so you can't mistakenly connect a wire to the wrong component. 

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Cool you are on the right side of this project now.  Did you get a refund from the Junk yard?

 

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No. That SOB is blaming me. Says he ran the engine and it was fine. Timing marks were all off - that’s something I should have looked at before buying but I trusted him. The other guy there took my original call and said their supplier usually gives them good engines - good clue the original guy is a liar. 

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