G B L Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The temperature of the water going to the heater core is at engine temperature [200+degrees] hot enough to cause a severe burn!!!Found out why the right side rear heat is not as good as the left side rear heat the transition duct from the heater to the floor duct is missingso the hot air just ends up in the console area. This explains the lack of heat in the back on the right side.It also explains console area gets very hot.For you folks with work vans if the heater for the back heat is not correctly blocked, then the heat will dump in the console area when theheat setting is to the floor.You might check and see if you feel air blowing out around the edges of the console. That is how I found the location of the missing duct. Now I have to see what the dealer is going to do. I think that when the duct is correctly installed the rear heat in the TC will be fine, Just in time for winter in Crazy cold Vermont!! windguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Update Decided not to wait for a service appointment Ordered the duct from ford $5.42 Installed it today airflow to rear good now It also made the console temperature to moderate. I am wondering if the work vans have the heater vents under the seats windguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windguy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 @GBL - excellent posts regarding the heater ducting. Ford needs to put you on their payroll. I never realized you had a wagon. Just assumed it was a cargo van. So you removed the lower console cover to expose the heater elements. Curious, was that hard to do? Any guess as to why this transition duct was missing from your van and would that be a global problem for others, like this part was off the build list and no one realized it was missing? I have the cargo van and there is no ducting under the seats. I checked after reading your first post. In fact there is a small gap between the front console and the one between the seats. Not sure if your console is the same or if the ducting goes below that somehow. To test if hot air is leaking in the console area, should I check where the plastic meets the carpet on both driver and passenger sides? It would make sense that something like this is happening rather than just having a closed heat exchanger putting out the heat but by touching the console the temp seems to be way hotter than any air that would be coming out of a vent duct so I'm not so sure why the excessive heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The console is the same the E brake is in the floor console section If you look at the parts diagram all the duct-work is under the carpet the only things visible are the last two pieces in the parts diagram part number 01454. These vents are only visible where they come up through the rug. If there is an air leak it will definitely be at the joint where the carpet goes under the console cover. If the work van does not have the under seat vents then the heat outlet has to be blocked and if it is not air tight then the heat will spill out into the console. I was able to pull the plastic fastener and move it out enough to get the duct in ( insert pain and Swear words in at this point) As for my guess it could be the right ducts ran out and the car moved down the line.with out a notation , or it was a nice day and the Spaniard went to lunch. The air flow to the second row is now good and I am thinking of away to improve the heat delivery for the booster heater keep me posted on what you find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricksrest Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) I have all my rear seats out so it isn't hard to look around under the driver's seat. The normal heat supply to the rear compartment comes from the main heater core in the front console. There are two ducts that rise under each front seat and blow air of whatever temperature is selected for the front compartment. When the front selector is turned to floor the maximum amount of air is delivered to the rear compartment first row seats. These ducts are loosely connected and could get pushed out of place by someone pushing a package under the seat and the airflow would not go where it should. There seems to be a separate air conditioning coil under the front seat for the rear compartment and everything seems to point to an auxiliary electric heat element there. I seems to become active with the rear heat control to the clockwise whether or not the front control are in heat mode. Just beside and out of the direct air flow of the duct outlet under the driver's seat is the noisy fan that pulls the surrounding air in and distributes it to the six rear outlets which are controlled by the rear climate control panel on the back of the center console. The rear heat selector also directs the airflow from the upper to the lower vent outlets depending on if it is turned counter clockwise or clockwise. I have included pictures of the filter and holders to show how much dust can accumulate in about six months. This may effect airflow. This assembly is removable by removing one torx tapping screw at the rear edge and turning the cage counter clockwise a bit. I doubt i will reposition the screw as it seats firmly. My wiring diagram for this shows a Rear Electric Booster Heater with a 10 gauge ground, an 80 amp fuse in the High Current Battery Junction Box and a lead from the Body Control Module labeled Rear PTC Heater Control plus one from an Auxiliary Climate Control. My wagon seems to warm up with the front set to floor and front and rear heat turned up and front and rear fans running fast but the rear will heat without the front feeding any air ti the rear system. Edited October 23, 2015 by ricksrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 The rear heat issue I had was a missing connector duct in the front console feeding the right rear heat duct. the simtoms of this is no air moving from the under seat outlet and the console under the shifter getting very hot when the heat is directed to the floor. Having replaced the missing duct the heat to the back is good and the console temp is now very Moderate. I suspect that there is somthing missing in the heater outlet on the work vans if the console is getting hot. I am going to do more research into the van heater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown86 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It is finally starting to get cold enough for me to test my rear heat and... like so many others, it is barely warm. I did notice the vent tubing under the passenger seat was dislodged about a month ago when I was cleaning it and snapped it back into place... I guess i'll be contacting my dealership soon. My understanding is that the rear heat works from an electric heater and not the heater core??? What kind of design is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Set the heater control on the floor setting fan on three or four. Put the front seats all the way forward so you have better access to check the air flow comming from the two ducts. The air flow should be equal on both sides of the car. If it is not then the ducts in the console could be missing. Aonother sign of the duct being missing is the of the console being very warm when the temp valve is turned into the red. the rear fan supplies air to the vents in door posts and the side vents at the third seat. The electric booster reheats the air to the door post vents and the third seat side vents.. When the front controls are set to the floor and the temp in the red area the rear heater will supply the warm air. Still trying to see how the work van rear heat is blocked from going into the shift area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown86 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I did some checking, and both of my ducts are attached. Hot air does feed to the rear at the feet, but the air coming out of the door vents is barely warm. The third row has no airflow whatsoever. When the cold temp is selected, cold air comes out of all of the door vents. I guess this is how ford intended it to work?? Edited October 26, 2015 by rbrown86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The rear heater boosts the temp of the air supplied from the front. When the AC is engaged the rear heater has its own evaporator to supply the cold air. I am fairly sure that if the AC button is engaged in the front the booster heater is turned off. the temp in the front is set by the temp control in the front and not dependent on turning the AC off. I am going to test this out tommorow and let every one know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windguy Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 GBL said in another thread As a side note if your console is running hot there is definitely an air leak in your heater. just used heat for the first time since spring yesterday. didn't have it blasting but I know the problem is still there. how did you figure out what the problem is for the cargo van models? do you think it's worthwhile to have the dealer take the housing off and check it out. Is that an easy thing to do? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Can you get a picture under the front seat of your Van? Either from the front or the back The parts break down not show the van heater separately so I have not been able to see how the heat is blocked off. But with the ducts in place the heat problem in the console is completely gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windguy Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Can you get a picture under the front seat of your Van? Either from the front or the back The parts break down not show the van heater separately so I have not been able to see how the heat is blocked off. But with the ducts in place the heat problem in the console is completely gone. I checked again and there are no ducts under the seat for the Cargo Van. in fact there is a slight gap between the lower console of the dash side and the center console The floor carpeting under the seat hides any possible cutouts for ducting. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Thanks, if you put the fan on high and set the heat to the floor is there any air blowing out between the front console and the carpet? There has to be a piece that blocks off the heater outlet for the rear seats. If that is not there or leaks the console area will be hot when the air flow is to the feet. I need to see a van . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windguy Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Thanks, if you put the fan on high and set the heat to the floor is there any air blowing out between the front console and the carpet? There has to be a piece that blocks off the heater outlet for the rear seats. If that is not there or leaks the console area will be hot when the air flow is to the feet. I need to see a van . Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try that next time I use the van. will report back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windguy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks, if you put the fan on high and set the heat to the floor is there any air blowing out between the front console and the carpet? There has to be a piece that blocks off the heater outlet for the rear seats. If that is not there or leaks the console area will be hot when the air flow is to the feet. I need to see a van . reporting back after having used the heater coming home from the beach yesterday. Summer is over here in So Ca. I blasted the heater really good and as best I could tell, it didn't feel like too much air was flowing out from the edge of carpet on the driver's side but more so on the passenger side. noticeably hotter on that side too. I had the passenger seat pushed all the way forward because of my boards sitting on that side in the back so it was a bit difficult to move my hand around easily. With the fan maxed out on 4 it got toaster oven hot down there. When you had your console cover off, did you take any pictures of what that heat exchanger looks like? Something is definitely not designed right with the heater in this area or as you suspect something is missing. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The air flow from the console rug line on the passenger side was similar on mine and the temp of the console was hotter on the passinger side When all is right the heat in the console area is completely mild even with the temp on high and the flow directed to the floor No did not have the cover that far off. With the seats all the way forward and the heat on the floor can you get your hand under the Drivers seat from the back? If you can can you feel any air movement. Need a picture pointhng forward under the seats! The diagram I posted earlier shows the heater outlet The Plot thickens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If you look at the parts diagram I posted earlier 19E705B is the part numberof connector piece and there are two listings one for the combi and one for the Vans. I suspect that the one for the Vans is a block off plate. The fact that the US vans start off as wagons could have an impact on the heater assembly. The plot gets even better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windguy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 there is nothing under the seats but carpet. no ducting on the cargo model. I never looked at what the wagon model to see where the ducting comes from. I think the dealer really needs to pull the lower console cover off and test the heater system to solve the problem. I hope they can do this without cheesing up the van somehow. I'm sure this isn't something they do very often if at all so the level of experience is going to be low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think you are on the right track. I would like to see what that connector piece looks like for the van it has to be a air flow block if that part is not right or missing then the air will be dumped into that area. I hope you get a tech who takes their time they will find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windguy Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I guess it would be better if I can get Ford to reproduce the same problem on one of their vans and pick that one apart rather than experiment with mine. I'll try that approach first and see where it goes. I had originally reported this problem to the local Ford dealer service adviser on my first oil change back in March but it obviously went no where. Time to try again. Will report back if I learn anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 If the problem Is wide spread then they will be able to duplicate it, If not yours will have to be the test case. The piece that is circled in red is a different part for the Van and I think it stops the air going to the rear on the Vans If they used the one for the wagon or the piece is not installed right then the air goes into the Console Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windguy Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 @GBL - thanks for the diagram and input. you are probably right in your assessment. a missing piece or a poor design that tried to accommodate the requirements for the wagon and van. I seem to recall poster Mustang reporting the same problem. I wonder if other cargo van owners have the same issue and can report back. I'll try to stop by the dealer in the next week or so and discuss this with the service adviser. hopefully I'll get some traction this time. will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgone Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 Happy new year. There is a point that is sadly overlooked in all this conversation. We all should have heard directly from Ford with an apology and a fix in their tool box. So many of you are creative and are attempting to explain and remedy the situation sharing facts and techniques and photos and diagrams. That is all good. However, the central fact still remains that Ford has completely ignored its customers and vehicle owners. If they were indeed concerned, the owners and the dealers would be contacted and the problem solved. Instead, the prevailing corporate climate seems to be, "...ignore the problem and it will eventually disappear". The disgruntled owners will busy themselves with their day-to-day lives and not have time to keep pursuing the issue. They will even issue us important-sounding special "case numbers" yet we never hear from them again. The only conclusion I can draw from that type of treatment and mindset is; They don't care and we don't count. It's great way to do business, don't you think? I will continue to pursue this, not only on principle, but also because my passenger's feet are still cold. Please do not give up or resolve yourselves to the idea that a major concern of ours is of no concern to the people at Ford. They owe us an explanation and a solution. mrgone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B L Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 My issue of no rear heat to the right hand second seat was resolved completely by the installation of the missing duct. I think that the fix that would allow the auxiliary heater to sent hot air to all the rear ac vents is the one that Ford should address. I hope you keep us posted on your efforts. Hope you get answers soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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