Doc Hoy
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Everything posted by Doc Hoy
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OOOOPS. I got it backwards. I said, " On Gen 1s, there are two CCs in series. First is about a foot downstream from the exhaust manifold. Second is further back. First O2 sensor is not called an O2 sensor. It is referred to as the "catalist monitor sensor." The second is after the first converter and referred to as an O2 sensor. " The CMS is after the converter and the O2 sensor is before.
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My scanner arrives on 22 Sept. I'll mess with it then and post some comments. Mechanic never got an EGR code to come up.
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Got it. On Gen 1s, there are two CCs in series. First is about a foot downstream from the exhaust manifold. Second is further back. First O2 sensor is not called an O2 sensor. It is referred to as the "catalytic converter monitor sensor." The second is after the first converter and referred to as an O2 sensor.
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Got it. What about Cataclean?
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Bought an Ancel 410 code reader. Seems to compare well with competition. I am sure there are better ones out there. I'll let you know how I likes it.
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I pulled the pulse to the coils one at a time. Each one affects the engine about the same. He pulled the pulse to the injectors one at a time. Each one affects the engine about the same. Neither of us watched exactly how much the RPMs dropped but I would same something like 200. Keep in mind it is already idling at about 700 RPM. He measured compression and said it was "good". Didn't say exactly what. But reported that there is no problem with compression. Comparing of one truck to the other I'd say that power from one is about 20% off on the problem truck. Question: As regards the back pressure on the converter, what should it be? (What is normal?) Question: Have you ever tried additives like "Cataclean"? Do they work? How long does it take? Can I do more harm than good?
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GBL, I am thinking about getting a scanner and getting good at using it myself. However in this case my mechanic, who has been in business successfully for at least 30 years used his scanner (Don't know which scanner it is but I now he doesn't buy junk and he paid a lot of money for it.) and it returned codes consistently that the engine was misfiring on cylinders 2 and 3. 1. Would a clogged converter impact the performance of only two cylinders? 2. Is there a gas additive which can be used to gradually clear out the converter? 3. Do you have a recommendation as to which scanner provide accurate and comprehensive error data? It appears that swapping out the injectors is easy to do. I can get a set of injectors for about 50 bucks. I am thinking that with the miles on the truck a new set of injectors is not such a bad idea anyway. I have two of these trucks. The other one is a 2011 with 190k. It runs fine. I wonder if I should start planning on having the same issue with that one when the mileage reaches 205k. (That was a joke but I am actually half serious about it.)
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When I began having difficulty opening the manual from Tradebit, I emailed them and the person who was actually providing access to the file. Within two hours I had an email response from the guy who is selling the files. It contained a PDF of the entire manual. I think that is pretty darned good service.
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All, I downloaded the service manual from "tradebit". It is okay but not great. It does appear to be the Ford Manual. Has some good diagrams but only limited explanations. Notes advise opening FirefoxPortable.exe with "Wine". 1. I am still trying to learn how to do this. 2. I am not sure what this will do for me that I can't already do with the manual. The manual has already answered some of the questions that I had. I suppose it is worth the 18 bucks I paid for the download. But the experience should really be more seamless. Anyone who tries this should be ready for about an hour of fiddling on your computer followed by some less-than-intuitive routing through the manual.
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GBL, "How does the tc run off idle when driving or accelerating?" 1. Engine smooths out but slightly lacking in power. It is driveable and most would not notice the diminished power but I do since I have another TC to compare it to. 2. When attempting to accelerate from stopped there is no response from the engine whatsoever until the accelerator peddle is nearly to the floor. (It is as though I am not even pressing the peddle.) Then the TC takes off with nearly proper acceleration. (Throttle position sensor? Ignition module? Vacuum?) "How do you know the o2 sensors are bad?" They are original in an engine with 220k miles and the code for O2 sensors comes up. "When you swapped the plugs were they replaced?" Yes. Replaced four plugs and four coils. Plugs were a little fouled but no improvement in performance at all. "When the coils and plugs were changed was the tc scanned again?" Yes. Misfire on two and three came up. It was not scanned before the plugs and coils had been replaced. I need a manual that shows me where the O2 Sensors and ignition module are. I am thinking about changing the Throttle position sensor unless someone tells me the symptoms are a long way from TPS. I am thinking about a set of injectors. (I know that the indication I described implies injectors are okay, but I am wondering of two injectors could be partially fouled.) Injectors are not expensive and if they are easy to change, what the heck. As advised by a previous responder, I am thinking of the cheap and easy things. The reason for that is that I am convinced this thing will wind up at the Ford dealership and I don't trust them. They will pester me about every little thing that a truck with 220k on it should have replaced without regard to whether or not it needs it. Then they will "Easter egg" the problem changing everything they can think of until they find the actual problem. They will charge me for the entire project including the things that had nothing to do with the symptoms. Are you getting an impression that I have a low opinion of Dealerships? Hope no one is offended. If I have to resort to a dealership I will prolly pay them to diagnose the problem and then either fix it myself or let someone I trust fix it.
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Back to this issue. I have been driving this TC with the minor miss in the engine. It is now getting worse. Took it to a mechanic who read codes implying misfire of cylinders two and three. Compression is even in all cylinders. I had already swapped out plugs and coils to no avail but he tried coils again. No help. He pulled the connectors to the injectors one at a time and found that disabling each injector creates a noticeable change in engine performance. Injectors are not expensive. I am thinking I might get a set and replace them. Have anyone done this and if so, how bad is the job. I also need O2 sensors which I would do myself if the project is not too intense. Anyone done this? If so, any tips? Also....Is there an ignition module and if so, where in the heck is it?
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I am looking for a good source for a repair manual for my 2011 and 2012 TCs. Seems like these things should available in the right version (North American Gas Engine) at a reasonable price. Last entry I found on this forum was from 2015 and spoke of a manual at 70.00. Now they are 100.00. Another spoke of a manual which only included info on the Diesel version. Tnx, Doc
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To MRTN, Thanks. I think I have pretty much confirmed the engine has a timing chain. To GBL, Thanks. No, I haven't. In fact I want to replace the O2 sensors but wasn't able to learn their location. To fifty150, Thanks. My shop teacher wasn't that nice. He had some more specific things he would say to us. To Mike, Thanks again. Don't know the numbers on the compression test accept to say that they were consistent in the cylinders. (Mechanic's words were, "You don't have a bad cylinder.") As regards idle, the truck runs rough as though there were a misfire on a cylinder. As regards acceleration, it acts like a carburetor car with a bad accelerator pump or a leaky vacuum advance line. Also, in my first response to you I mis-spoke. I reported that the truck "always runs rough." and that is not the case. I should have said it "always idles rough". At speed it smooths out but is slightly lacking in power.
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Compression is good. No water in the oil. No oil or water getting out of the engine. Doesn't run hot. Symptoms not perfectly consistent. By that I mean it does not always take five revs to get it to catch. Sometimes catches right away. Always runs rough but not always the same roughness. I would take this to the Ford Dealership but I have very good reason not to trust them. I know of instances where they "easter egged" for repairs and then charged for everything that was done, even the things that DID NOT have an impact on the problem. I know that they do a bait-and-switch process. I was hoping that someone on the forum might have had the same or similar problem and could tell me what they did.
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Been a while since I have visited the forum but I am at a loss. Have 2012 TC with 200k. Gas engine automatic. About 5k miles ago, the truck presented the following symptoms. Starts a little hard. Sometimes has to turn over four or five revs before it catches. Other times starts a little easier. Runs rough at idle. Idles at about 800 rpm and sometimes feels as though it is ready to stall. Sound from the exhaust is of a misfire or staved for gas. I have to press the accelerator peddle pretty far before the truck accelerates. (As though the linkage had somehow slipped...but it hasn't) At speed the truck runs smooth but lacks power. Replaced coils and plugs. No help. Took to mechanic. He shot codes indicating bad coil. replaced coil. No help. Fuel pressure appears to be correct. No codes on injectors. I have two of these trucks a 2011 and this 2012. Both have about 200k. 2011 runs fine. This one runs rough. Any ideas?
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No surprise.... When I was in Asia, it was always hot. (Where I was)
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To 150 thee posts up, The old expression "location, location, location" applies to more than just real estate.
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150, You are right about the 20%. Some of ours are lower and some are higher. If we sell a soup (or anything else for that matter) that has a higher cost, (lower margin) we absorb it to keep the price within our window. We know what our patrons will tolerate. As an example, we have standard soups at 4.00 and 6.00 for a small (yes we do use the word "small") or large respectively.Then we have premium soups at 5.00 and 7.50. We sell sandwiches at 4.00 to 6.00. Ham, Chicken salad, and Turkey have good margin at 4.00. Salmon cake has good margin at 5.00 but Grab cake costs us about 28% at 6.00. Right now, none of our distributors can even get crab roe. If we could get it from a specialty outlet, we'd have to raise the price of our soup. (That would be the soup that everyone buys to the tune of two or three kettles per day.) ANYWAY>>>>> My tranny pan gasket is holding after about a week.
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Entirely possible the gasket was damaged as you say. The She crab soup is what got us started. We had been sort of searching different restaurants for a She Crab that we liked. We couldn't find one so we decided to retire from academia and open a restaurant. She crab is funny. There are several aspect which I have come to accept. 1. Almost no one makes authentic she crab soup. It would be too expensive. 2. Some like to doctor it with sherry and my thought is that if it takes sherry, why bother? Dump some Jack Daniels in a tumbler, hold a can of lump crab meat in your left hand and the Jack in your right. Take a sip of Jack while looking at the crab meat and voila! She Crab. 3. Almost all she crab soups are good. But none we found were memorable. Ours is not memorable either but it is good and people seem to like it.
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Not certain why it failed. My only thought is that the transmission got hot when the fluid level was low. Maybe warping the pan or just weakening the gasket. I have no evidence this is the case but it just doesn't seem normal for the gasket to gap as it appears to have done. No damage to the pan as though one of my employees had run over something. New gasket went in fine. If I had more trucks I would think about fleet maints. For now, it is too small of a management effort to let it sap away resources. In addition I would not want ANOTHER person calling me telling me that the world would come to an end if I didn't allow them to "maintain my web page" or "deliver paper supplies", or "manage my marketing efforts" or "provide for my employee's retirement". I get numerous calls every day from such harpies. They always come at the busiest times. They arrive in a "Trojan horse" such as, "Gee, This is the best She Crab soup I ever ate. Why don't you let me put your ad in my mailbox stuffer? Just 336 dollars for a quarter page." One "expert" wanted to charge me between four and five thousand to put an ad randomly on the back of the register tape from a local supermarket. Raise your hand if you have ever even turned the register tape over let alone actually read what is on the back of it. Okay, I am off the soapbox. Sorry guys.
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GBL, You can quite imagine how relieved I was when I got the truck back in good working order and spending only 250.00. I drive these little trucks hard. I really should take better care of them. But I know (in most cases) when a vehicle is telling me it needs my attention now! A puddle of transmission fluid is a little hard to ignore.
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Wow.....This generated a lot of response. Thanks y'all. From the top To GBL: Don't have access to a scanner but I think it is about time I buy one and get used to reading it. Any recommendation on the right unit to get would be welcomed. Additionally, if the PCM is supposed to be controlling the idle and the truck is idling at 600 to 700 RPMs, I am thinking about a whole set of new possibilities (Which I anticipated when I first noticed and tried to think through the problem.) To Dandy: Went to the website and it looks very interesting. Was a little concerned by the "Warning". When I have more time, Ill read more about it. To MRTN: Thanks for the push. I was thinking about getting a coil set that includes the plugs. I am a tightwad so I would likely go for the cheapest ones I could find (About 45.00), unless I get some warning from y'all about ones to avoid. To Loafer: I was thinking to look at other general maintenance types of things when I swapped out the coils and plugs. The truck has just over 200,000 miles on it. I bought it last year for 4200.00 and have been driving it trouble free (including driving by my employees) so this truck owes me nothing. Can't recall jumping this truck. I own two of these things and I had to swap out the battery in one of them but I am pretty sure it was the other truck. It runs smooth. I agree with your assessment of the caliber of the people who post here. Impressive. To GBL: The problem is not obvious at anything above and idle and does not seem to be peculiar to AC on or off status. I will pay closer attention tomorrow when I drive it. (If I can get the darned thing to myself.)
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Two posts in one day after about a four month absence?! I need to get back to work. :o( My 2012 TC idles a little rough and idle appears (to me) to be too low (Looks like about 700 rpm.) I am thinking that a coil pack may have failed or may be failing. Not familiar enough with these to know if a sick coil pack will cause these symptoms. Truck has been running this way for about a month and has not gotten any worse. Some questions: 1. Is there a simple adjustment on idle? If so can you describe the process? 2. Are there any coil modules on the market which should be avoided for reasons of quality, compatibility, performance or such? 3. Am I barking up the wrong tree as regards coils and idle problems? (I do understand that there are probably a hundred things that could cause a rough, low idle.)
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Been while since I posted on the forum. Restaurant is really taking off and time is tight. Perhaps you recall that I own a 2011 and a 2012 Connect which I use as food trucks and delivery vehicles. I love these little trucks and they are making me a nice amount of money. Developed a serious problem in the 2012 this week end. The truck started to shift slow, rev between gears, and fail to disengage first gear when coming to a stop. Checked the transmission fluid and found it was a quart low. Added a quart and the transmission started acting a little better. Went to the truck the following morning and found a huge puddle of ATF under it. Jacked it up and found obvious gaps in the pan gasket. (Wish I had taken photos but alas.....) Bolts were all tight. Had it towed to the mechanic. He swapped out the gasket and transmission is acting perfect. BTW, in the second photo, the bus on the right is NOT a heavily modified TC.....just in case you were wondering.
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Welcome and nice ride. I am in C'Peake.....Are we neighbors?
