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Tom899

Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) battery

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Hi Don, the only reason I mentioned the “100 month warranty” on the battery I got is to distinguish it between another battery model/quality version offered by Ford for the same vehicle.  This version I got is also branded as their “max” I think, is apparently the higher of the two quality levels, but really it a no-brainer decision for me as the only type that the local Ford dealers seemed to have in stock, the price was good, it had a recent build date, I knew it would fit as good as the original battery fit, and it got my car back on the road in short order after the original battery failed.  But, let’s be realistic - I’m going to assume will get another 4-5 years out of it, nothing more, unless I get lucky.  Expecting a battery ford advertises as “100 month or 80 month” warranty to actually last that long is setting yourself up for disappointment. :)

 

With this talk about “1/2” taller” and “fits on tight” you guys are talking about for the group 48 AGM battery you found, I sure hope you’ve verified there is nothing metallic above the battery compartment area?  Arcing the battery terminals sure could cause a sudden release of energy and potential for a pretty dangerous situation.  If the battery manufacturer doesn’t actually recommend this battery for our verhicles, probably it being 1/2” taller would be the reason why.  I remember even the original battery to be an extremely tight fit back there.  Even after removing the air filter housing, (both upper and lower pieces.)

 

I have no doubt that AGM is superior technology to flooded acid, especially for certain uses like rapid discharge/charge.  AGMs can outgas corrosive gas (my last optima did that around the positive terminal and caused a mess of the battery cables before it went.)  Just want to mention that amongst battery options, the genuine battery is actually a pretty good deal (cheaper than most flooded acid aftermarket equivalents I looked at, and probably in no way “worse”.)

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17 hours ago, jakeru said:

With this talk about “1/2” taller” and “fits on tight” you guys are talking about for the group 48 AGM battery you found, I sure hope you’ve verified there is nothing metallic above the battery compartment area?  Arcing the battery terminals sure could cause a sudden release of energy and potential for a pretty dangerous situation.  If the battery manufacturer doesn’t actually recommend this battery for our verhicles, probably it being 1/2” taller would be the reason why.  I remember even the original battery to be an extremely tight fit back there.  Even after removing the air filter housing, (both upper and lower pieces.)

The battery is enclosed on all 6 sides in a nylon/plastic case, so if the battery you want will fit inside that case, there is zero chance of anything getting anywhere near the terminals.  The battery case in our TC's has LOTS of unused space in it which does allow for a larger, more powerful battery to be installed.  So long as you can fit it in the case, properly clamped down, there's no danger . . . .  actually much less danger installing a sealed AGM than you would have with a flooded battery which can vent hydrogen gas

 

If you had an AGM battery that 'outgassed' and caused corrosion, you had a pretty serious charge problem with the vehicle.  AGM's are sealed, though they do have pressure relief valves to keep them from exploding when the charging system goes amok and tries to destroy the battery  -  If you had a flooded battery in there instead of the AGM, it would have quickly boiled it dry, under those conditions.  Not a problem with either battery, but with the vehicle (and it's charging system) that the battery was installed in

 

Don

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Nah, the battery simply was at end of life - nothing wrong with the charging system.

 

In my experience, and testing, imbalance that develops between the cells (some can have current leakage more than others) can result in some cells being undercharged, and others overcharged (thus, if the situation gets bad enough, causing the electrolyte to boil in the most overcharged cellsnwhen the “simple” 14.4v charming system series-charges all cells with the exact same current).

 

If the imbalance of any cell becomes bad enough, it can cause boiling of the electrolyte in the overcharged cell, and corresponding pressure build-up, and eventually, acid-vapor release.  (And it doesn’t matter whether the liquid electrolyte is absorbed into a gel or fiberglass mat, or simply in a flooded bath - it can and will “boil” when overcharged to a high enough degree, just the same.)  ‘Flooded’ batteries nowadays are sealed (aka “valve regulated”, VRLA, or “maintenance free”) - just the same way that AGM batteries are.

 

I’ve drilled holes in old batteries and put multimeters and charging probes on individual cells to better understand this common lead-acid battery failure mode, and I’ve even been able to revive “dead” battery (although only temporarily) by manually balancing each cell, to restore the balance.  It was short lived because whatever condition, like inter-cell current leakage that caused the imbalance in the first place didn’t get fixed, so cause the battery to become imbalanced a few days later.)  Other more “finicky” (and dangerous) battery chemistries like lithium ion have active balancers for each cell.  Lead acid can tolerate a mild bit of overcharging without issue, so tend not to have cell balancers, as the charging circuit and wiring is much more complicated.  A battery will only give good cranking power when it’s cells are balanced and relatively charged up.

 

In any case, I’m glad to hear you were able to mount your oversized battery without any perceived safety issue.

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Yes, I confirm, the AGM battery fit is good, plenty of room all around and especially on top. The plastic cover that fits on top makes sure nothing will ever touch the terminals. It's more protected than most vehicles. In 2019 the TC will have start-stop technology. All Ford start-stop vehicles automatically come with AGM batteries.

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Thought I'd give you guys an update on the AGM battery in my TC (bought at Sam's Club). I've been using it in the TC for a year now. Currently on a month long trip in Florida and using the fridge 24/7. All is good. Great vehicle, love it! I will buy another one when the time comes.

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7 hours ago, Tom899 said:

Thought I'd give you guys an update on the AGM battery in my TC (bought at Sam's Club). I've been using it in the TC for a year now. Currently on a month long trip in Florida and using the fridge 24/7. All is good. Great vehicle, love it! I will buy another one when the time comes.

 

Nice update, thanks. Still a great thread with some decent battery information.

Glad to hear you're enjoying your TC and that fridge is working out okay.

 

 

 

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Just wanted check on this. To replace the battery, JUST removing the air cleaner lid & bellows provides enough room? I bought my 2015 T.C. used, and have never had the battery out. I see the center strap that is held by two screws. So in the rear bottom of the battery tray there is a spacer that 'snaps' out to provide enough space to center a group 48 (H6) battery? I'm guessing an H6 battery has has its posts centered so it reversible to allow the positive post forward? 

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The Sam's Club Duracell Group 48 (H6) AGM battery is like the original, just slightly bigger, but still fits and can still use the original top bracket. The posts are exactly in the same place as the original. If I remember, pulling the air cleaner and bellows assembly will give access to removing the battery.

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Thank you Tom. T.C.s are new territory for me and all guidance is much appreciated.

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Some great battery info in here.  Recently the battery in my wife's Smart car died due to a light b being left on overnight.  I couldn't get it to charge so went and pulled the replacement battery  off the shelf and blew the dust off of it.  I bought it 3 or 4 years ago the last time she ran her battery down but was able to charge the battery then.  It regerstered 11.98 V after just sitting on the shelf without any charging.  Battery in the Smart car was almost 9 years old.  Ive found cars with batteries in locations other than the engine compartment last much longer due to not getting cooked by engine heat.  Worst cars Ive had for batteries are surprise - turbocharged cars!

 

I've looked into lithium ion batteries for my motorcycle but have not gone that route yet. They don't have great performance when really cold but I don't ride my bike after its been sitting outside in 20 degreeF weather.  Nice thing about lithium is the weight reduction which would be very nice in my current bike as the battery is mounted high.  

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On 4/18/2019 at 9:14 PM, Sampa said:

Just wanted check on this. To replace the battery, JUST removing the air cleaner lid & bellows provides enough room? I bought my 2015 T.C. used, and have never had the battery out

Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that.  The front side of the battery box is also a high power fused distribution point and you'll have to cut some cable ties so you can fold that forward far enough to get the old battery out and the new one in.  Getting the larger AGM in there isn't what I would call a simple task  -  I've changed batteries in dozens of cars over the years and this one would rank up there as the most difficult exchange I can ever recall doing . . . . and I'll BET you'll agree after you get yours replaced 

 

As I said in my post at the beginning of this thread, if you buy a battery from a place that offers free installation, *by all means* take them up on it!  -  They'll probably think twice before they offer to do another TC

 

Don

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Thank you Beta Don. I thought that something had to give to get that L-O-N-G battery out of the box. I'll likely do the install myself as that is how I learn about these things.

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3 hours ago, Sampa said:

 that is how I learn about these things.

 

This vehicle has a very similar layout under the hood.  Much of this will be the same.  

 

 

 

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An update on my Sam's Club AGM experience

 

This past August, we drove the TC over to Titusville Florida (600 miles) to pick up a motor home we'd bought.  Sometimes, we go a month or two or even longer between uses of the TC because we have 3 electric cars we drive every day, so the TC only gets used for long trips or when we need to haul something big or tow something.  Put the TC back in the garage, but as it turned out,  I forgot to unplug the GPS from our 'always on'  power socket.  When I needed to move it again about 3 weeks later so the Propane delivery guy could drag a hose through the garage, it wouldn't start.  Checked the battery with a voltmeter  -  4.6 volts!!

 

Toasted my AGM battery, or so I thought.  Voltage was so low a conventional battery charger wouldn't recognize it, but I have an old 6 amp charger that will work with anything, so I hooked it up to that and it took 3 days to put enough power in it to where the TC would start.  Had an occasion a few days later to drive it over to Mobile (60 miles) and when I got ready to leave to come back, it wouldn't start again.  Got a jump, drove it home and hooked it back up to the 6 amp charger and left it for a week or two

 

Drove it once more since then and it started OK, so I bought a little Battery Tender Jr and I've kept it on that ever since

 

Anyway, I got to thinking about Sam's Club's 3 year Free Replacement Warranty and since I bought the battery in April of 2017 (and it was manufactured in January of 2017) I'm getting near the end of that 3 years, so . . . . I took the battery out of the TC to take to Sam's to get a free replacement.  The Battery Tender has kept it at 13.2 volts for the past couple months and I realized that Sam's would no doubt load check the battery to make sure it's actually bad before they give me another one, and not wanting any surprises at the store, I figured maybe I'd better check it myself before I took it over there

 

So, I hook the battery up to an inverter and plugged a 200 watt 120 volt light bulb into the inverter to use for a load.  It's drawing right at 20 amps from the battery and I expected the battery voltage to go south pretty quickly.  I could not believe what happened next!!  After an HOUR of providing 20 amps to the inverter, the battery voltage had sagged to 12.15 volts (it was 12.25 under load when I started the test) and when I shut it off, the battery voltage rose (over a 4 or 5 minute period) to 12.55 volts.  12.6 is a full battery!

 

So much for taking it to Sam's for a free replacement  -  I might as well put it back in the TC and see how long it lasts, 'cause they're sure not gonna give me another one when they do their own load test on it

 

In my opinion, it's one heck of a battery  -  Sitting for an extended period at less than 6 volts and then coming back to life like it has is VERY impressive!

 

Don

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Posted (edited)

The battery in my 2016 1.6L Ecoboost TC was getting weak. Thanks to the information in this post I bought an Odyssey 48-720 AGM replacement battery. This larger battery fit easily once I removed the plastic spacer in the battery box (see photo). I had to bend the clamp to make up for the added height. The battery box cover fit without any modification.

 

The 1.6L has the battery monitoring system (BMS). This system is not on the 2.5L TC. The BMS regulates charging to optimize fuel efficiency. For example, it increases the charge voltage when you coast downhill. The BMS must be reset when a new battery is installed. I do not know if the BMS will be affected by an AGM versus a flooded acid battery. My concern is the AGM has a higher full charge voltage (around 12.9V) compared to 12.4V for a flooded battery.

 

I used Forscan to reset the BMS and all battery data was reset (age, state of charge etc.). The Odyssey has more capacity and CCA than the stock battery: 720CCA, 69AH. Forscan allows selection of different battery types (see photo). The stock selection was #11. I initially tried #0A but it did not seem to charge the battery over 12.3-12.5V. Plus I was not sure what the "IF" in the description meant. I hoped it identified an AGM battery but I don't think is does. I recently changed the setting to #03 (80AH, 700CCA). I don't have enough data to make any conclusions yet but it appears to charge the battery to a higher voltage...approx. 12.6V.

 

Has anyone with a 2.5L and AGM battery monitored the voltage? I use a USB charger with voltage display plugged into the cigarette lighter.

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Edited by Don Ridley

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The BMS did not work for an AGM battery. It holds the state of charge (SOC) at 80% and only applies 12.2-12.7V to maintain the state. This is too low for an AGM that needs to be around 12.8-12.9V.

 

I disabled BMS using Forscan and selected a different battery type: T7 IF 75ah 650CCA. Now the charging system increased the SOC from 80% to over 90%. At 90% the charge voltage dropped to 14.7V. This is the recommended float voltage by Odyssey for the AGM. Now the battery is holding 12.8-12.9V . It looks like I found the proper setting.

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I hope it is OK to chime in an old thread, as I just went through this on my TC, a 2015. 

 

I got a MTP48/H6 from Interstate, and found it too tall to fit, even though it is in their application book.  The battery was too talk to fit the hold down bracket, as the top of the group 48 battery is about 9/16" too tall. 

 

I took the battery (OEM motorcraft original) to Autozone, which had "BXT-96R" on a sticker on it. But on the counter, it was much longer than the 96R battery. We found that it was a dead on match for a DIN size T6 (in fact, perfectly identical in even the molding marks).  

 

I could see another sticker under the black Motorcraft label, so I peeled it up. Underneath, was a blue Ford label with size T6, made in Germany, "Ford Silver Calcium".  T6 is identical to US size 91 as well. 

 

The Silver Calcium brand is sort of telling, as Ford does these in Europe. The Silver-Calcium formula battery uses a slightly higher charging voltage (14.8 vs. 14.4), and is supposed to last longer. I dunno, mine made it about 5.5 years, hadn't quite failed yet, but was starting to show signs of weakness. 

 

If the car was set up for 14.8V charging from the factory, it may have some bearing on the battery life if different formula batteries are used. 

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Yes, the 48 series batteries are taller than the OEM battery. It was easy to bend the ears on the battery clamp to adjust for this height difference...at least for the Odyssey 48 AGM. The battery box and cover are large enough for the 48 series batteries.

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However, a T6 will fit easily with no bending of metal and has more CCA (though not really necessary), and it is what Ford put in it, then slapped a group 96R sticker on top of. (weird). 

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@nuke, that's because they want you to keep buying from a dealer, so they give it an oddball label that only exists in FoMoCo system. 

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LOL, I wouldn't put it past them. 

 

But 96R is a standard format car battery under US numbering system, and T6 is a standard DIN battery size in Europe (equivalent to US group 91 battery). Ford says to use their 40R battery, which isn't expensive and is made in Germany - likely a silver-calcium battery. 

 

I did a little checking with a voltmeter today, and the electrical system is definitely set up from the factory for charging Ford's (european) Silver Calcium batteries. It runs at about 14.8 - 14.9 volts, just a little bit higher voltage than ideal for flooded cell (wet) or AGM batteries sold in the US.  They're standard issue all over Europe in Ford products, but not at all common in the US. 

 

Exide's calcium-tin battery is probably quite happy at this voltage. 

 

File it under useless data. 

 

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Several of us who converted to the Group 48 size and AGM format did so because we are running things off the battery and not just using it to start the engine, so we wanted more power, more reserve capacity and less self discharge

 

I carry a pair of full sized Segway I2's in the back and I wanted to be able to charge them using an inverter while driving and I didn't want to have to shut down the inverter when I stop for gas , or lunch, or shopping along the way.  I installed a 750 watt inverter in the back of the van fed by a #4 wire and a 70 amp fuse, powered off the battery.  Others are running refrigerators and other things, usually with inverters, so stuffing the most reserve amp hours into the stock battery box was a good idea . . . . and it has worked well for all of us

 

Don

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I have been monitoring the charge voltage since I installed the AGM battery and disabled the BMS. The power control module appears to adjust the voltage based on the battery temperature and charge current. Max voltage has been 15.1 after start-up with 40 degree battery temp. The voltage is high at this phase even when the charge current is low. As the battery warms up the voltage slowly drops. I think the lowest  charge voltage has been 13.9. This only happens after driving for about 30 minutes.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens when it's 100 degrees.

 

I don't know if theses voltages  are ideal for an AGM. I will find out in a couple of years. But like Beta Don said, I want more cycling capacity. But in the end, it's just another lead acid battery that will fail eventually.

 

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