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Doc Hoy

Engine runs rough at idle, idles too low

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if the catalyst is coated the Cataclean will help, but if the grid is plugged with carbon or dirt  it won't

Not sure where the cat is on the gen 1 . on the gen2 it is part of the head pipe so there is no chance of clearing that one. 

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Got it.

On Gen 1s, there are two CCs in series. First is about a foot downstream from the exhaust manifold. Second is further back. First O2 sensor is not called an O2 sensor. It is referred to as the "catalytic converter monitor sensor." The second is after the first converter and referred to as an O2 sensor. 

 

 

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if there is a blockage it will be the first converter.

The trouble code  P141A has turned out  to be an EGR code.  If the EGR valve is not fully closing for the idle it would definitely affect the idle and lower the power.

https://www.engine-codes.com/p141a_ford.html

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My scanner arrives on 22 Sept.

I'll mess with it then and post some comments.

Mechanic never got an EGR code to come up.

 

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OOOOPS. I got it backwards.

 

I said, " On Gen 1s, there are two CCs in series. First is about a foot downstream from the exhaust manifold. Second is further back. First O2 sensor is not called an O2 sensor. It is referred to as the "catalist monitor sensor." The second is after the first converter and referred to as an O2 sensor. "

 

The CMS is after the converter and the O2 sensor is before.

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It does not mater what you call it.  The pressure gauge needs to go in the port nearest the engine.

If you have the right scanner you  can test the EGR.

That EGR Reference was for a different post. It would cause your symptoms also.

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Bought some Cataclean and some injector cleaner on today. Monday.

 

As soon as I get a moment free I will try the Cataclean. I'll wait on the injector cleaner. I will not use them at the same time.

 

I am really anxious to try this Code Reader. I did a good bit of comparison between the low cost (under a hundred) readers available. According to the various write-ups, the Ancel 410 came out slightly on top.

 

All of the write-ups are vague on how comprehensive the readers are  in terms of the data they return. It came down to a couple of unimportant factors: Screen size and characteristics or data presentation. Length of the cable. Front panel controls. Speed of delivery to my mailbox. Finally price. The Ancel was the most expensive but on top in all other categories.

 

The rest of this week is monumentally busy at the restaurant so it won't be until prolly Monday but I'll give y'all a report on how I like it.

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I got my scanner about three days early so I messed with it a bit this evening. I cleared the emission system codes and they stayed off but I imagine they will be back on by tomorrow evening. I read the engine codes and found a Random Multiple Misfire code. I have a fail on number 2 but that only happened once in about three minutes. No other individual cylinder codes coming up. Now I do not get a code on any individual cylinders.

 

I might add that I read codes on my other 1TC and got no codes and the dashboard reflects no codes.

 

I dumped a can of Sea Foam into the gas tank (full) in the hopes of getting (or keeping) the fuel system clear. We shall see.

 

So far, I like the scanner. Easy to use. Senses the VIN. I have to get better at using it to really tell if it is helpful. As I only paid 40 bucks for it , I don't feel too bad.

 

Tnx,

 

Doc

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After a little fooling around, I have come to the realization that the information provided by my scanner is not a complete match to the info described by my mechanic as coming from his scanner. While he described codes indicating more or less consistent misfire on 2 and 3 I am getting only "Multiple Misfire" and no repeated reference to a specific cylinder or cylinders. I did get a specific cylinder on one reading and that was number 2. I am not certain if:

 

1. His scanner is providing better information because it is a better scanner

2. He is not communicating well when describing his scanners results to me

3. His scanner is interpreting engine performance in a way that is so accurate that it is reporting performance which is not actually contributing to my problem

4. I am too dumb about using my scanner

 

I have resolved to take the truck to the Ford dealership as soon as I can be without it for a while. In the mean time I have ordered injectors, a MAF sensor and a throttle body.  I will put these in before a take it to Ford. I will change these things because they are; inexpensive and relatively easy to change, questionable in a truck that has 220k miles on it, might contribute to the poor performance of the truck as their operation is described in the manual.

 

My hopes are not high but I am giving it a try.

 

BTW, the injector cleaner and Cataclean did not help. No such thing as "mechanic in a can"

 

Tnx,

 

Doc

 

 

 

    

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Does your scanner have live data?

I would do an exhaust back pressure test also, that would tell you a lot. The Cleaners in a can will clear some running issues they will not help with mechanical Problems.

 

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Scanner has live data but I have to get better at using it. I don't have a gauge for testing pressure drop across the converter.

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Changed Injectors today.

 

I looked for a procedure on the internet for a while but was unable to find one specifically for the 1TC. So I am posting this here.

 

This is a 2012 1TC with gas engine.

 

For most of you this will be of no value since you have probably changed enough of these that it is old hat.

 

I am going to do this in several different post so that it is easier for me to compose the narrative. It may not be completed in one sitting so please be tolerant. For those of you who have a manual or who have done this before, please wade in with correction/improvements.

 

The entire process only took about an hour.

 

Image 1 is top of engine with arrows showing location of injectors.

 

Good idea to pull the fuse which protects the fuel pump. On mine this was fuse number 4. Engine should be running. When you pull the fuse the fuel pump stops pressurizing the line. The engine will use the fuel in the lines the lines are depressurized. I still had a bit of fuel in the lines which got onto the top of the engine. Here is a link to a site which has the diagram of the fuse box.  https://fuse-box.info/ford/ford-transit-connect-2010-2013-fuses-and-relay     Be careful. If you try to download the PDF, you get hoodwinked into downloading a "Downloader". You don't need it. Just save the page. It has a good diagram of the cabin fuse box and the engine compartment fuse box (which is the one you are looking for.)

 

Image 2 is of the fuse box with fuse 4 removed.

 

In order to get the fuse box cover off and out of the way, you need to take the ground strap loose from its landing point in front of the fuse box. It is held in place with the grey clip and pulls off rather easily. The fuse box cover also comes off pretty easily. One snap on either end.  Image 3.

 

 

    

Top of engine 2.jpg

Fuse box.jpg

Wiring in the way.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Image 1 is of the injector connectors removed. Squeeze the clip on the side of the connect and pull it off. Inside the red oval, you will see the plug positioned next to the injector it was intended to feed. Don't worry about getting the plugs back on in the right sequence. The wiring harness routs them in such a way that it is hard to reconnect them incorrectly.

 

The injectors are held in place with the fuel rail. Images 1, 3, and 4 also shows the fuel rail bolts. These are 10 mm. I squirted them with Kroil before trying to remove them. After about five minutes they turned right out. Images 2 and 5. Sorry about the sequence of these photos. I had them right but I think the software likes them in a different sequence.

 

Once you get the bolts out, you will feel the injectors moving in the cylinder head and in the fuel rail sockets. You now have a decision to make:

 

1. Pull the injectors while they are still connected to the fuel rail.

2. Remove the fuel rail from the top of the injectors and pull them individually.

 

I use method two, although I have read stuff on the internet which leads me to believe that others have used method 1.

 

Injector plugs removed.jpg

Fuel rail bolt removed.jpg

Fuel rail bolt right.jpg

Fuel rail bolt left.jpg

Removing FR bolt.jpg

Edited by Doc Hoy

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Posted (edited)

I tried removing the fuel rail and injectors as a unit but was unsuccessful. I could feel the injectors moving in the cylinder head and I could also feel the top of the injectors moving in the fuel rail.  But I just could not get enough purchase on the fuel rail to dislodge the injectors from the cylinder head.

 

So I surrendered and decided to remove the rail and then pull the injectors individually.

 

The injectors are held in place in the fuel rail by a clip at the top of the injector which engages a flange on the rail. Image 1.

 

These clips are disengaged from the rail by prying outward with a screwdriver so as to get a tab on the clip to disengage from a flange on the rail. In the image you can see the two sides of the clip. These clips are quite stubborn. You need to be able to simultaneously pry outward on both sides of the clip whilst pulling on the fuel rail to move it off of the top of the injector. Ford probably makes a tool to open both sides of the clip at one time (Or, they have hired a bunch of Turkish mechanics with three hands.). The clip will remain on the top of the injector and once you figure out how to open both sides of the clip at the same time, you can pull the rail off just enough to clear the tabs on the clip. Start at one end (I recommend the left end as you view the engine.) So with the clip on the injector to the left disengaged from the fuel rail, you can move to the next clip in line and slowly you will have them all disengaged from their respective injectors. If there is a frustrating part of the project, the removal of the fuel rail is it. Still, it appears to be a better method than trying to pry all of the injectors out simultaneously. (Method 1) I simply could not do it, but you may be able to.

 

I included image 2 as a better view of the clips on top of the injectors. Old injectors with clips in the top row and new injectors sans clips in the bottom row.

 

Image 3 may be helpful in understanding the interaction of the clips with the injectors and the rail. The top of the clip (remember...You are looking at the photo with the clip upside down) must be pushed outward in the direction of the red arrow. At rest it is in the position indicated by the red profile. It must be pushed out until it disengages the flange on the fuel rail as shown in the yellow profile. You have to do this to both sides of the clip on that injector until the clip completely disengages the rail on both sides of the flange. Then, you have to pull the fuel rail away from the injector. Good luck.

 

CAUTION: Don't lose or discard these clips. Be careful not to damage them during removal. My set of injectors did not come with clips. I needed them.

 

Image 4, shows the fuel rail completely removed and positioned out of the way.

Injector retaining clip.jpg

Injectors old and new.jpg

Injector retaining clip disengaged.jpg

Fuel rail out of the way.jpg

Edited by Doc Hoy

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Check the catalytic converter if it was melted.  To do this get under the vehicle and bang on the cat with a mallet or your hand, if you hear any rattling inside the cat it was likely melted and the honeycomb is loose and not allowing good flow.

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Yep, That I can do.

 

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Back to the injectors.

 

With the fuel rail off and out the way, it is a simple matter to pull each injector out of the head. It takes a little doing but eventually they all came out. No need to pry on them. No need to get after then with any tools.

 

Image 1 is old and new injectors

 

The remanufactured injectors came with seals but not with clips and so I needed to salvage those from the old injectors. They are darned hard to get off. I wound up putting each injector in a soft jaw vise just tight enough to hold it in place. Then pushed the clips off with a screwdriver. Image two is injector in vise.

 

This process worked without damage to any of the injectors.

 

Injectors went back into the engine fairly easily as well. I put a little grease on the seals so as to permit them to slide into the hole in the head without damaging the seal. Grease on the top seal as well.

 

It appears these are designed to only slide into the head and into the fuel rail just so far. Then the tightening of the bolts in the fuel rail (when the fuel rail is finally reinstalled  over the injectors) finishes the job of seating the injector in the cylinder head and in the fuel rail.

 

I snugged the bolts down and reconnected to plugs on each injector.

 

Put the fuel pump fuse back in place and replaced the fuse box cover.

 

I shorted out the PCM so it could relearn the shift points (Not certain this is needed for this maintenance action.)

 

Job complete. Truck still runs rough but I was pretty sure it would since injectors had already been eliminated as a source of problem.

 

 

Injectors old and new.jpg

Injector in vise.jpg

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I also changed the throttle body, throttle position sensor and MAF sensor. Here again, I was not in much hope of making the symptoms go away. I did it because the parts were cheap. The job was easy and I was already under the hood. Indeed it did improve performance a little but not enough to say it is fixed.

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FWIW we had similar symptoms to yours as well occasional difficult(extended crank) starting in some ford rangers,all kinds of codes..going on memory here but i believe there was a shifted key(barely) in the harmonic balancer causing the CPS signal to PCM confusion. 🙁

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Willygee,

 

I took the thing to the shop and will hear back from them this week as to what the actual fix will be. Long time to work on it but they are behind because of a long closure during the recent storm. I am at the wrong end of the backlog.

 

More later.

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In the immortal words of Popeye the sailor, "Ghuuugh, This is embaraskin."

 

When I opened this thread, I was really stuck. I had a 1TC which was running just like it had slightly uneven compression, problem with spark, or problem with fuel on two of four cylinders. I swapped out the plugs and coils, thinking that an engine with over 200k might need it (or more correctly...deserve it). No change. Bought a code reader and did not get anything but "Multiple misfires". Took it to mechanic with prolly forty years experience and a very successful shop. He did not note a compression problem in the engine but also got multiple misfires with an occasional hit on 2 and 3. Swapped out the injectors and still no change.

 

Mentioned it to y'all and one of the first questions to me was essentially, "Are you positive that compression is even on all cylinders?" My response was in the affirmative and that is the embaraskin part.

 

I happen to be good friends with a car resale business owner. (One of the honest ones). She and I were just speaking one day and she mentioned that she had a new mechanic who because of a Navy transfer had to leave a Ford dealership and was working for her until the local dealership had an opening. He took a look at the TC for me and within an hour had found slightly low compression on the center two cylinders. To just about everyone who responded with your help, I apologize. I was wrong, everyone of you was right. ;o(.

 

He offered two options.

 

1. Take the truck to machine shop and have the top end rebuilt.

2. Swap the engine.

 

Didn't want to rebuild the top end, because I would spend a lot of money and have an engine with over 200k and a rebuilt top end (How soon do the mains go?)

Mechanic found an engine in a wreck with under 90k on it. The price was an amazing (to me) 250.00 plus 1600.00 to swap it out. 

 

Got the truck back and it runs like new.

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Woot woot!   Happy you decided to stay a TC owner.  Did you keep new parts you changed?  You never know.....

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Good , basic trouble shooting is the best.  Glad that you have a real answer and the TC is back on line. 

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This mechanic was a dealership tech between dealerships.  Sometimes the dealerships have good techs.  Real advantage is that dealership techs work on one type of car, and get factory training. 

 

A good mechanic at a good shop works on a lot of different cars.  While he's good in general, he is not working on Ford all the time, and doesn't get the latest training on Ford.  Almost like asking a French chef for a burrito.  

 

Then you have to deal with dealership pricing, and out of touch service writers trying to upsell and raise their commissions.  The upsell really leaves a bad taste.  I watched as a service writer gouged $1500 in extra work from an old lady who came in to get new wiper blades.  

 

The worst is a dealership with bad techs.  Some dealerships do not have good people....... wasn't there a post about a door latch recall, where the forum member found that the dealership did not even do the work?

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David,

 

I will second the "Woot Woot". I have two of these things and they are good work horses. Good thing because I can't afford to change now.  Unfortunately the old motor is already gone and the injectors and coils with it. The throttle body and MAF sensor was used  in my truck as they did not come with the motor. I do have the injectors I took out of it three weeks ago and no reason to believe there is anything wrong with them.

 

To GBL,

 

Yes. Zakly. But this time I was allowing myself to be lead down the primrose path with some info that did not add up.

 

To 150,

 

Every word of your post could be sited to summarize my hesitancy with the Ford dealership. I don't really know their specific work quality but I don't intend to find out. When I learned that this general mechanic had extensive experience with Ford and some good experience with 1TC, I had everything I needed to make the decision. 

 

The guy who is in the shop that fixed it told me all of the OBDII codes should be the same. What I mean to say is that the OBDII reader should not be confused by the fact that the engine is not original even if it is a Focus engine. He did not know if the motor came out of a TC or out of a Focus.

 

Tnx,

 

Barry

 

Edited by Doc Hoy

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