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Johnyguy

2014 Transmission fluid level check/refill.

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On 10/9/2017 at 4:38 PM, Beta Don said:

Sadly, we don't have the dual clutch transmission  -  That was used in many of Ford's trucks.  No idea why they are mentioning it in the 2014 TC manual??

Also, we cannot change the filter, as it's buried within the transmission and you have to take the trans out of the van and separate it into two halves to get at it

Mercon LV is the correct fluid

 

Don

Oh god I'm so glad someone agrees with me on this, I have 14 Connect 2.5L and my manual says the same thing Dual clutch XT-11-QDC. WTH is that doing in a 14 Connect manual when right above it on the same page says Mercon LV!!!! I almost refilled it with that crap and am glad i was smart enough that it raised a red flag.... Also are you sure the trans has to be split to get to the filter and not external as an easy change? 

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I just changed the trans oil in my 14 this weekend. I jacked it up to remove the large cover then set it back down with the wheels turned all the way to the left. If I lay on the ground I can reach both plugs easily so not a difficult job at all.

James

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Unless you drained and filled it 3+ times, you didn't really 'change' anything  -  Most of the trans fluid is  trapped in the torque converter and there's no way to drain the torque converter on this model.  I did four drain and refills when I changed my fluid.  Even doing it that many times only gets you a 90%+ 'change' to new fluid.  One drain and refill and you still have more old fluid in there than new

 

"Not a difficult job at all?"  That's not how I would describe a complete fluid exchange

 

Don

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36 minutes ago, Beta Don said:

One drain and refill and you still have more old fluid in there than new

 

 

I agree.  Do it once, and the only thing that happens is the fresh fluid you just added, will be contaminated by the larger volume of the old fluid.

 

The most effective way is to use the machine connected to the cooling and return lines.  No member of the forum has done it at home yet.  But it's possible to disconnect the return line to drain until fresh fluid is coming out.  There's a special tool for the fitting.  A little more work.  Those quick connect fittings are not easy to get to.  You will need about 2' of hose to attach to the return line.  

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If you do the three to four drain and fill on a regular basis the 90+ percent change will be good enough to protect the transmission. Even when you disconnect the cooler line you still get some fluid being returned to the sump so even that flush is not 100 % unless you run over 20 quarts of fluid through the gear.

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20 hours ago, Beta Don said:

Unless you drained and filled it 3+ times, you didn't really 'change' anything  -  Most of the trans fluid is  trapped in the torque converter and there's no way to drain the torque converter on this model.  I did four drain and refills when I changed my fluid.  Even doing it that many times only gets you a 90%+ 'change' to new fluid.  One drain and refill and you still have more old fluid in there than new

 

"Not a difficult job at all?"  That's not how I would describe a complete fluid exchange

 

Don

Yes I know how a transmission works, I've been turning wrenches professionally since 1988. My current job I work on everything from chain saws and weed trimmers to Cat excavators and dozers. I've used the trans flush machines too. In my opinion if the trans has never been serviced before it's better to introduce a little fresh oil at a time. New oil has additives in it that help the seal stay soft and work correctly. It also has detergents to keep things clean. I've seen transmission with high mileage that had never been serviced but still working fine, crap out after a complete flush. My plan is the change the oil in the trans sump every time I change the motor oil. I've done this with the autos I've previously had and never lost a transmission since. Hadn't had any external leaks either. The last two auto trans vehicles I had were both nissan's, may have had something to do with it. I prefer manuals but my knees don't like pushing a clutch all day anymore. I'm 50 and have no kids at home anymore but chose a mini van as a commuter vehicle because at my previous job we took care of many of these connects for various companies, and never had problems with them. Just serviced them and sent them out. Ford E series vehicle were a nightmare of problem but transits, both full size and connects only required services. As a owner I want a trouble free vehicle so I'm not always doing repairs, I don't mind doing services though.

James

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9 hours ago, JamesRich said:

I've seen transmission with high mileage that had never been serviced but still working fine, crap out after a complete flush. 

 

Sometimes that has to do with pressurized flush machines.  Sometimes the new fluid detergents loosen so much of the built up sludge, that the sludge moves to a different part of the transmission and damages it.  With a lot of those old transmissions which have never been serviced, you are on borrowed time.  Those transmissions should be rebuilt.  If you take them apart, clean out the sludge, then reassemble with new parts..... it's almost as good as new.  Except that nobody wants to spend money to rebuild a transmission which is still running.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, JamesRich said:

My plan is the change the oil in the trans sump every time I change the motor oil. 

 

 

Good strategy.  Other forum members have considered it.  Same as dropping the pan in the old days.  Nobody did a "triple drop the pan".    Idea is that you can refresh the fluid every oil change.  Fluid will be in better condition than doing nothing at all.

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On 12/29/2019 at 5:31 AM, JamesRich said:

 My plan is the change the oil in the trans sump every time I change the motor oil.

 

That's is my plan as well.  My take after a bunch of reading is that the 6F35 fails because the fluid loads up with wear products (especially from the Torque Converter Clutch), rather than because the fluid breaks down or has additives (e.g. TBN boosters etc) that get used up.   Taking out a third or half of the dirt every 10k should give about the same average dirt level as taking it all[most] out every 30k, but with lower extremes on both the dirty and the clean side... plus it is convenient (IMO) to add 20 minutes to an engine oil change, rather than spending a morning messing with multiple drains, fills, and warm-ups.

 

I haven't actually done a change yet because I'm trying to figure out why my trans never gets hot (above 70C) and is slow to warm up (15 minutes to get to 50C), plus I'm researching external spin-on fluid filter set-ups.

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11 hours ago, Eddy Kilowatt said:

I'm trying to figure out why my trans never gets hot (above 70C) and is slow to warm up (15 minutes to get to 50C)

 

 

How long are you driving? How far are you going?  What is the ambient temperature?  A lot of factors.  Then there could be a mechanical cause.  They're multiple safeguards against overcooling.

 

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On 12/31/2019 at 1:40 AM, Fifty150 said:

 

 

How long are you driving? How far are you going?  What is the ambient temperature?

 

 

Well for example, on my 35 mile drive to work: ten miles of two-lane at 45-60 mph, a couple miles of stop-and-go with several traffic lights, then 20 miles of freeway.  60-80F Central Coast temperatures.  TFT rises steadily but slowly and has just barely made it to 70C by the end of the 45-minute drive.  Seems slow to me, given that engine coolant is over 80C within a few miles, and there's a somewhat elaborate heating/cooling system with a trans fluid heat exchanger, that should be actively seeking to servo the TFT to a target temp that I suspect should be in the 80-90C range.  I *have* seen higher temps but only when climbing extended grades in hot weather.   

 

I need to see if I can reach the heat exchanger to do a "put your hand on the upper radiator hose" kind of test, or else tape a couple of thermocouples to it and remotely monitor the ins and outs to see what's going on.

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ATF goes to the cooler bypass valve.  It returns to the transmission unless it is hot enough to close the valve.  Once at correct temp, ATF goes to the heat exchanger, where there are fins for airflow and coolant carries the heat away.  The coolant flow is from the overflow tank to the heater.  This flow is regulated by 2 valves which can be monitored with Forscan.  All of this is suppose to regulate ATF temp.  

 

 

Screenshot_2020-01-08-11-07-38.png

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I could be entirely wrong.  While there is a coolant line which runs from the overflow degas bottle, to the oil-to-water heat exchanger for ATF, then to the heater core.  And there are 2 electronically controlled valves to regulate the coolant flow.  The sensors monitored as coolant bypass valve may not be the valves which regulate coolant flow to cool the ATF.  In some cars there is a coolant bypass hose which allows coolant to flow to the heater core before the thermostat.  There may be a valve regulating the bypass hose.  

 

In any event, Forscan also has PID for the fan.  I set them up and took screenshots for you to look at.  I don't know how to interpret the data.  But it might help you.

 

 

Screenshot_2020-01-09-10-45-14.png

Screenshot_2020-01-09-13-52-39.png

Screenshot_2020-01-09-13-55-39.png

Screenshot_2020-01-09-14-05-11.png

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On 1/8/2020 at 12:39 PM, Double Nickels said:

ATF goes to the cooler bypass valve.  It returns to the transmission unless it is hot enough to close the valve.  Once at correct temp, ATF goes to the heat exchanger, where there are fins for airflow and coolant carries the heat away.  The coolant flow is from the overflow tank to the heater.  This flow is regulated by 2 valves which can be monitored with Forscan.  All of this is suppose to regulate ATF temp. 

 

Yes, that's my understanding of the parts of the system.  The ATF flow is straightforward; from the one diagram of the flow in the cooling system it is a bit harder to understand which way coolant is flowing and where the hot and cold and high and low pressure parts of the system are. 

 

In my mind there's a bit of a puzzle about the role of the cooler bypass valve.  I too believe that it ordinarily would not send ATF to the heat exchanger until the ATF warms up.  And yet, there are these two coolant valves, and per the shop manual the job of one of them is to send warm coolant to the heat exchanger to help warm up the ATF.  BUT, how can that do any good if the cooler bypass valve doesn't send ATF to the heat exchanger until the ATF is warm?   I wonder if the bypass valve for this model is strictly a pressure bypass, rather than thermostatic.  There don't seem to be any specs for its operation in the manual.

 

Thanks for the tips about the coolant valve parameters, I might try adding those to my Forscan display to see if they make any sense.  I did a 90 minute drive last weekend and TFT seemed to settle around 165-170, but I didn't give the van enough work to get the TFT hotter and see if it returned to that level.

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3 hours ago, Eddy Kilowatt said:

In my mind there's a bit of a puzzle about the role of the cooler bypass valve.  I too believe that it ordinarily would not send ATF to the heat exchanger until the ATF warms up.  

 

It's an open valve, which closes with hot fluid.  Reverse of thermostat, which is closed, and opens with hot fluid.  Pressure and gravity will return most of the ATF, bypassing the cooler, back to transmission.  Some fluid does flow in the direction of the cooler, but not as much.  Hot fluid closes the valve, and all ATF has to flow up through the cooler.  

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Eddy Kilowatt said:

there are these two coolant valves, and per the shop manual the job of one of them is to send warm coolant to the heat exchanger to help warm up the ATF

 

Theory of the heat exchanger, including when transmission line goes to radiator, is that a cool fluid helps to dissipate heat from the hot fluid.  ATF lines always run across the lower temp side of the radiator from top to bottom, or along the bottom, since heat rises.   The coolant from the overflow  tank is cooler than hot ATF. Coolant carries heat into the heater core, which is also a little radiator, where heat is dissipated.  I don't think the cooled radiator fluid can really warm up ATF.  

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Eddy Kilowatt said:

per the shop manual the job of one of them is to send warm coolant to the heat exchanger to help warm up the ATF.

 

 

Coolant in the engine has to heat to 185 or 195, before the thermostat opens.  Coolant in the degas bottle, which goes to the transmission cooler, is not hot like the temp that your PCM is reading.  Coolant temp sensor is usually on top of the engine reading hot radiator fluid before it opens the thermostat and flows to the radiator.   PCM reading for transmission temp is inside the transmission at the valve body.  I have no idea what the temps are at the heat exchanger, or ATF in the return line.  

 

Here are a few screenshots of my drive today. Started in San Francisco, where the Warriors play behind the police station. Went to Menlo Park where Steph Curry lives.   Coolant is at temp to open the thermostat just before I got on the freeway.  25 miles down the road, ATF is up to temp.  Then I pull over to see that ATF is maintained at operating temp.  

 

 

Screenshot_2020-01-11-10-44-31.png

Screenshot_2020-01-11-11-04-03.png

Screenshot_2020-01-11-11-23-29.png

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You could also clear the adaptive learning table, and see what happens. I looked down today, and noticed that at freeway speed, the transmission was in 4th gear and the engine RPM was over 4,000.  My ATF was over 200° F.  I am thinking of clearing mine, just to see what happens.

 

 

Screenshot_2020-01-20-11-00-25.png

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NEED ADVICE ANYONE PLEASE CHIME IN on the Connect 2014 and up!!  I know probably wrong forum here though I tried to find something similar but just need advice. I have the '14 TC 2.5L and has anyone noticed that the coolant needle goes from cold in the morning  to the middle (normal operating temp) within like 45-60 seconds of start up driving??. Its not overheating everything's fine never goes past the middle but it's crazy that it moves that fast from cold,, most every car I know takes at least 5-10 minutes of driving from cold to get to the middle normal mark!..The awesome thing is I have heat in like a minute in the winter which I like.. I just want to make sure I don't have a big air bubble in the cooling system or something and screw up the engine.. If yours does the same thing then I wont worry.. thank you

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Monitor the temperature and engine RPM.  If your coolant temp is near 100℉ as the idle reduced, you are fine.  Mine is fast also.  Everbody‘s idle drops from 1200 RPM to 800 RPM quickly. It's how the car was engineered.

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