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60 posts in this topic

Every car forum needs to have a lengthy topic, which goes on forever, and often strays off topic.

Can we trust the onboard oil change light?  Is the algorithm sophisticated enough to truly know if I'm a regular driver, or if I am a severe duty driver?

Who does their own oil change?  What do you use?  Who is allowing the dealer to do it?  Anyone going to a "lube shop" like Oil Can Henry's, Jiffy Lube, Pep Boys, Oil Changers?

 

Who is using only Motorcraft?  Anyone like "boutique oil", K&N filters, and fancy magnets?

 

 

Let's hear it all.

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Ok Fifty150 I will start off the replies. First Generation Transit Connect. Use my Ford dealer. Every 3,000 miles. Same price as the lube/oil shops. Includes the multi-point inspection and rotates the tires and a van wash and checks for OBDII fault codes.

Edited by 103west43rd

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Amazing that the current generation, according to the owners manual, can go up to 10,000 miles in between oil changes.  

 

Dealerships have to be competitive with pricing.  People realize that a local lube shop can do the same job for a lot less, and those savings add up.  Especially in your case, with an oil change every 3K.  Why are you changing your oil so often?  Is 3K the recommended interval in your manual?

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Funny how there is always a coupon for an oil change, and tires are always on sale.

 

 
 
 
 

 

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Service Coupons & Offers

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BUY FOUR SELECT TIRES, GET A $140 REBATE BY MAIL WHEN YOU USE THE FORD SERVICE CREDIT CARD.*
Expires 12/31/2016
BUY FOUR SELECT TIRES, GET A $140 REBATE BY MAIL WHEN YOU USE THE FORD SERVICE CREDIT CARD.*

On these name brands: Goodyear, Dunlop, Continental, Hankook, Pirelli,® Bridgestone and Yokohama®

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* Dealer-installed retail purchases only. Limit one redemption per customer. $70 Goodyear, Dunlop, Michelin, Continental, Pirelli, Hankook, Yokohama and Bridgestone tire rebate by prepaid debit card or apply to an active Owner Advantage Rewards® account. $70 credit card rebate by prepaid debit card only. Subject to credit approval. Complete purchase must be made on the Ford Service Credit Card. Offer valid 10/01/16 to 12/31/16. Submit rebate by 1/31/17 by mail-in rebate form or online at fordowner.com. Cannot be combined with any other tire manufacturer-sponsored or Ford Service Credit Card rebate/offer. See participating U.S. dealership for vehicle applications, rebate and account details.

BUY FOUR SELECT TIRES, AND GET A $70 REBATE BY MAIL.*
Expires 12/31/2016
BUY FOUR SELECT TIRES, AND GET A $70 REBATE BY MAIL.*

On these name brands: Michelin,® Goodyear, Dunlop, Continental, Hankook, Pirelli,® Bridgestone and Yokohama®

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* Dealer-installed retail purchases only. Limit one redemption per customer. $70 tire rebate by prepaid debit card or apply to an active Owner Advantage Rewards® account. Offer valid 10/01/16 to 12/31/16. Submit rebate by 1/31/17 by mail-in rebate form or online at fordowner.com. Cannot be combined with any other tire manufacturer-sponsored rebate/offer. See participating U.S. dealership for vehicle applications, rebate and account details.

LOW PRICE TIRE GUARANTEE*
Expires 12/31/2016
LOW PRICE TIRE GUARANTEE*

Why buy tires anywhere else, when your Ford Dealer offers all of this:


• 13 major brands
• 30-day price guarantee
• All makes and models

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*Valid on Dealer-installed retail purchases only. Requires presentation of competitor’s current price ad/offer on exact tire sold by dealership within 30 days after purchase. See participating U.S. dealership for details.

THE WORKS® $39.95 OR LESS.*
Expires 12/31/2016
THE WORKS® $39.95 OR LESS.*

• Synthetic Blend Oil Change
• Tire Rotation and Pressure Check 
• Brake Inspection
• Multi-Point Inspection
• Fluid Top-Off
• Battery Test
• Filter Check
• Belts and Hoses Check

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*Up to five quarts of Motorcraft® oil and oil filter. Taxes, diesel vehicles and disposal fees extra. Hybrid battery test excluded. Offer valid 10/01/16 to 12/31/16. See participating U.S. dealership for exclusions, rebate and account details.

LIFETIME BRAKE PAD GUARANTEE.*
Expires 12/31/2016
LIFETIME BRAKE PAD GUARANTEE.*
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*Eligible Motorcraft® brake pads purchased after 7/1/14. Nontransferable. Requires copy of original repair order and completion of any other necessary brake service, such as brake rotor service. Replacement Motorcraft brake pads must be installed by a U.S. Ford or Lincoln Dealership or Quick Lane® technician to be eligible. Labor costs not included. Restrictions and exclusions apply. See participating U.S. dealership for details.

HAVE YOUR BRAKES INSPECTED. FREE.*
Expires 12/31/2016
HAVE YOUR BRAKES INSPECTED. FREE.*

Performed by an expert technician.

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*Inspect brake friction material, caliper operation, rotors, drums, hoses and connections. Inspect parking brake for damage and proper operation. See participating U.S. dealership for details.

MOTORCRAFT® BRAKE PADS INSTALLED, $99.95 OR LESS*
Expires 12/31/2016
MOTORCRAFT® BRAKE PADS INSTALLED, $99.95 OR LESS*

*Per-axle price. Pads or shoes on most vehicles. Exclusions apply. Taxes extra.

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See participating U.S. dealership for details.

MOTORCRAFT® COMPLETE BRAKE SERVICE, $179.95 OR LESS*
Expires 12/31/2016
MOTORCRAFT® COMPLETE BRAKE SERVICE, $179.95 OR LESS*

• Brake pads or shoes
• Machining rotors or drums
• Labor included

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*Per-axle price on most vehicles. Exclusions apply. Taxes extra. See participating U.S. dealership for details.

MOTORCRAFT® TESTED TOUGH® PLUS BATTERIES $99.95 MSRP*
Expires 12/31/2016
MOTORCRAFT® TESTED TOUGH® PLUS BATTERIES $99.95 MSRP*

With 84-month warranty.

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*With exchange. Taxes and installation extra. Warranty includes FREE towing on dealer-installed battery. See participating U.S. dealership for vehicle applications and limited-warranty details.

HAVE YOUR BATTERY TESTED. FREE.*
Expires 12/31/2016
HAVE YOUR BATTERY TESTED. FREE.*

Be sure you have the starting power you need.

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*Visually inspect and test battery using Rotunda Micro-490 tester. Hybrid battery test excluded. See participating U.S. dealership for details.

MOTORCRAFT® TESTED TOUGH® MAX BATTERIES STARTING AT $119.95 MSRP*
Expires 12/31/2016
MOTORCRAFT® TESTED TOUGH® MAX BATTERIES STARTING AT $119.95 MSRP*

With 100-month warranty.

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*With exchange. Taxes and installation extra. Warranty includes FREE towing on dealer-installed battery. See participating U.S. dealership for vehicle applications and limited-warranty details.

MOTORCRAFT® PREMIUM WIPER BLADES WITH WEAR INDICATOR $19.96 MSRP*
Expires 12/31/2016
MOTORCRAFT® PREMIUM WIPER BLADES WITH WEAR INDICATOR $19.96 MSRP*
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*Per pair. Taxes extra. See participating U.S. dealership for installation, vehicle applications and details.

GET A $25 REBATE BY MAIL WHEN YOU USE YOUR FORD SERVICE CREDIT CARD TO MAKE A QUALIFYING PURCHASE OF $250 OR MORE (BEFORE TAX).*
Expires 12/31/2016
GET A $25 REBATE BY MAIL WHEN YOU USE YOUR FORD SERVICE CREDIT CARD TO MAKE A QUALIFYING PURCHASE OF $250 OR MORE (BEFORE TAX).*
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*Subject to credit approval. Rebate valid on qualifying purchase before tax; not valid on prior purchases. Complete purchase must be made on the Ford Service Credit Card. Offer valid 10/01/16 to 12/31/16. Submit rebate by 1/31/17 by mail-in rebate form or online at fordowner.com. Limit one $25 rebate per visit. Rebate by prepaid debit card. Cannot be combined with other Ford Service Credit Card offers. Valid at participating U.S. Ford Dealerships.

FORD PARTS WARRANTY: TWO YEARS. UNLIMITED MILEAGE. INCLUDES LABOR.*
Expires 12/31/2016
FORD PARTS WARRANTY: TWO YEARS. UNLIMITED MILEAGE. INCLUDES LABOR.*

Ford parts are original equipment for Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles and can help restore new-vehicle-like performance and reliability. And now they’re covered for a full two years with unlimited mileage. Even labor costs are included.

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*Limited labor costs. See your U.S. dealer for a copy of the limited warranty.

MOTORCRAFT® WARRANTY: TWO YEARS. UNLIMITED MILEAGE. INCLUDES LABOR.*
Expires 12/31/2016
MOTORCRAFT® WARRANTY: TWO YEARS. UNLIMITED MILEAGE. INCLUDES LABOR.*

Motorcraft parts are original equipment for Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles, and can help restore new-vehicle-like performance and reliability. And now they’re covered for a full two years with unlimited mileage. Even labor costs are included.

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*Limited labor costs. See your U.S. dealer for a copy of the limited warranty.

 
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And since oil changes are always a hot topic, here are a couple of things I found online.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3240/confessions-of-a-car-dealership-service-manager-6311261/

Confessions of a Car Dealership Service Manager

If you've ever felt you got a raw deal taking your car in for service at the dealer, our anonymous service manager says that may well be true. But he also cites a number of reasons to take your car to the dealer for work anyway—and tells how not to get the short end of the stick when you do. He should know. He's spent 23 years as a manager for brands as varied as Nissan, Ford and Mitsubishi, and has also served as a warranty administrator and customer relations manager for multiple dealerships.

 
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What's a good reason to take your car to the dealer for routine maintenance, rather than to the guy with two bays and a private shop?

Let's use Ford as an example. If you own a Ford vehicle, the Ford dealership will have Ford-trained technicians who work on Ford vehicles 95 to 100 percent of the time. During that time they will use Ford resources and Ford training to repair your vehicle correctly, and (ideally) they take Ford classes and attend Ford schools to keep up on their knowledge. With the other guy, it's a tossuphe may work on two Fords one week and not see another for a month. Also, on regular maintenance it can sometimes be cheaper, not more expensive. To get an oil change and tire rotation where I live, the Ford dealer is $38.95 plus tax, and Sears wants $75.

So it's not necessarily more expensive, and they know more about your car. Any other reason?

Often times at Jiffy Lube or wherever they're paid by the hour, and they're not necessarily trained to know your vehicle. And that can cost you your engine. If I could get half of what I've charged customers to replace engines that were screwed up by Jiffy Lube and Walmart, for such things as not enough oil, too much oil, the wrong weight of oil, wrong filter, loose filter or any combination of the above, I could have retired a long time ago. There's no point to spending $30,000 to $40,000 on a new vehicle and then trying to go cheap on the maintenance.

What's an example of a common tactic by dealers to pad the bill?

So-called shop supplies. That is, and always has been, the biggest crock of crap I've ever seen, and it's been going on for years! It is essentially similar to going to a nice restaurant, getting your check and finding you've been billed for napkins and silverware, which are necessary costs of the food service business. Shop supplies include, but are not limited to, shop rags, lubricantsthis isn't the motor oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid and steering fluid they might put in your carand the cost of disposing of used oil. These are just some of the necessary costs of doing the auto repair business. Some dealers do not charge for them, but most do, and what is considered shop supplies is at the discretion of each individual dealer. I've seen a customer get billed for $30 in shop supplieson top of their estimatefor the use of three shop rags! For that price, I can buy 20 rolls of shop towels at Auto Zone.

If you got a bill that had shop supplies on it, what would you do?

Ask to see exactly what that means. Ask to see the precise items they actually used. Challenge them on it. You might not get them to knock it off your bill, but you should try.

 

You also said that dealer service departments too often recommend fluid flushes and replacements that aren't called for by the owner's manual. The dealers cite the "severe use" schedule that doesn't apply to the vast majority of us. Should drivers simply veto a service or fluid replacement that isn't recommendedin the owner's manualunder the normal or light-duty service requirements?

Yes, you should go by what the owner's manual recommends for normal use. And, yes, this is a common practice, and I hate to admit that. When I was a customer relations manager, I had a service manager who would [bate people into buying the fluid changes] by showing new fluid versus used fluid. She made more than I did just in flush commissions, but had the worst customer satisfaction surveys. I have always stuck to the manufacturer recommendations, and my Escape has over 310,000 miles on it. Less than five percent of drivers operate their cars under conditions that would be deemed "severe." The ones who do are usually taxi or pizza-delivery drivers, or those who frequently take their SUV or truck off-road.

What's the single best piece of advice you'd offer to a friend about servicing his car at the dealer?

A dealer won't come right out and say it, but if you have your regular service work done at the dealer... (because warranty work pays the dealer a lot less than service work), your value to the dealership increases. Here's an example: Suppose your vehicle goes out of warranty and a week later you have a catastrophic failure. If you have shown loyalty to the dealership by using them for regular service work, they will be more inclined to help youas opposed to the person who buys a car there and takes it somewhere else for regular service, and only brings it in for warranty work.

So it's about building a relationship with the dealer?

Yes. You need to know that dealers make very little on car sales. And warranty service doesn't pay as much as regular maintenance. But if they see that record that you've been loyal to them, they'll likely be loyal to you.

What's a sign that a dealership doesn't value that relationship?

Constant turnover at the service desk. You should get the name of the person at the desk. You should ask for him or her. If that person's different every time, it's not a good sign. Good auto service work starts with a relationship between the advisor and the customer, and that cannot be obtained when the customer sees a new advisor every time he comes in. I always knew the person's car, I pulled up its history, and that's something people appreciate. But if that person is new or is always changing, they don't know you or your car stuff gets missed, and that's typically not good for you or your car.

How come a dealer might charge you 30 percent more for a part than you can find it for at AutoZone?

It's one of the hang-ups I've always had about domestic automakers. You can often buy their parts cheaper at the auto parts store than you can at the dealership parts counter. And the dealer knows this, but he can't do anything about it. The problem is that even though that's true, the dealer doesn't want to install a part that he didn't source, because if it fails, how does he warranty it?

So what do you do as the customer?

There's not a lot you can do. They can install the part if you went out and bought it, but most won't.

Speaking of AutoZone, you can take your car there to have them read what a Check Engine light means. How accurate will that reading be?

Check Engine lights are big moneymakers for dealers and also the bane of a service manager's existence. Anyone can use a code reader. But what does the code mean? For every code there need to be additional diagnostics. I've had customers come in and tell me to swap some part, because they're sure it's the problem. But all that is is a really expensive guess. They might be right 10 to 20 percent of the time, close 20 percent of the time, and dead wrong 60 percent of the time. I had a customer go through six oxygen sensors when all it was was a shorted wire.

What's the smartest thing you can buy from the dealer?

A brand-name extended service contract. So if you're buying a Ford, get a Ford contract. If it's a Toyota, buy the Toyota contract. The opposite is also true. Never buy the extended service contract that's generically offered through the dealer but isn't backed by the brand of car they sell.

How come?

Because the people who fulfill the generic contracts are paid by how little service they have to do. So they fight the dealer on every penny. They'll want to see the entire labor record on the car. They won't want to pay for parts. They'll fight on the cost of the labor. In the end, the customer is going to have to eat some of that cost, even though the contract supposedly covers the car.

What's the worst day of the week to get your car serviced?

Friday afternoon after lunch, because the service department is trying to push out as many vehicles as possible. Maybe a car has been there since Monday waiting on parts. Maybe there are a few cars like that. Then people pour in around lunchtime wanting oil changes. And there are the cars there already with appointments, and everyone's in a rush to get it all done. Make an appointment for a Monday morning as early as possible. It's a lot more orderly, and they'll do a better job.

 

http://www.ourridelife.com/2014/06/05/how-a-40-oil-change-at-a-ford-dealer-cost-240-and-how-to-avoid-it/

Doing Oil Changes Yourself is One Way to Avoid Being Taken

My wife recently took our family car to get a $40 oil change (I always change the oil in my Porschemyself, but haven’t done it on our family car). The car is a 2013 Ford Explorer that we have been taking to the dealer for such maintenance since new (the place where we bought the car offered all maintenance for free, but we have since moved out of the area, so now pay for it).

To get the oil changed she went to Future Ford in Clovis, California. The service was for 20,000 mile maintenance. While there they recommended changing the air filter (which was fine) and they mentioned that the car missed its 15,000 mile Fuel Induction Cleaning.

She agreed to all of this thinking that the Fuel Induction Cleaning was a Ford recommended maintenance item. She did not know what the cleaning actually did and thought that they were taking apart the fuel system and cleaning everything by hand.

Of course when I heard of this I said, “we needed what?” In case you aren’t familiar with a Fuel Induction Cleaning (sometimes also called Fuel Injector Cleaning), the dealership ran some product through the engine that is supposed to clean off carbon deposits, etc. It is questionable what affects this “snake oil” actually has on the engine, either negative or positive.

By the time I heard about this the service had already been done and that $40 oil change had quickly become over $240. $170 of this price was for the Fuel Induction Cleaning.

After getting all the information, I contacted Future Ford and let then know my wife was led to believe that this was a Ford maintenance item, but after a check in the owner’s manual I verified that this was not Ford recommended. I also included my intentions to write about this situation (and thanks for reading it).

I contacted them through their website and apparently I got their attention as they responded that evening letting me know they would look into it the next day. The next morning we were notified that they would be refunding the Fuel Induction Cleaning in full and the service manager clarified that it was a dealer recommended service, not manufacture recommended.

This problem isn’t just with Ford dealerships, either. A friend of mine had a similar thing happen when he took his Chevrolet to a GM dealership. Once he realized what it was he wanted a refund, but didn’t get anywhere with that.

We reached out to the Ford Motor Company to get a statement as to what they think of such service being represented as if it is a factory recommendation. Below is their response to our request.

Ford recommends that dealers follow the maintenance as outlined in the owner’s guide and our dealers use the multi-inspection report card to assess needed service. Dealers are independent businesses and they can recommend additional services but those are considered above and beyond our recommended maintenance in each vehicle’s owner’s guide.

I do want to point out that this is not an issue with all dealerships. We bought our SUV at Perry Ford in San Luis Obispo, California and nothing like this was ever mentioned when doing recommended maintenance. Beyond that they offered a three year 36,000 mile all maintenance package, so we never had to pay for maintenance.

Owning a Porsche I have also dealt with quite a few great dealerships, such as Porsche of Fresno. I have had topnotch service whenever I have needed to take my car to the dealership (it does cost more, but the service is second to none and I do most maintenance myself on the Porsche).

We are happy to get the refund, but what of other people that don’t have a popular blog or press contacts to use to help get such results? What can you do to guard from this?

  1. Do all the maintenance you can yourself: If you are able to then do most maintenance on your car yourself. There may be cases, such as some leases, where you must use a dealer’s service department. However, if at all possible, doing the job yourself is always best.
  2. Take your owner’s manual into the shop: Your owner’s manual outlines the recommended maintenance, so bring it with you and check that what is being recommend is in the book.
  3. Bring a knowledgable car enthusiasts: If you don’t know much about cars it is best to bring someone who does. If I had gone with my wife, then I would have said no to this service in the first place.

This whole thing turned out fine for us, but if you don’t have a blog with 30,000+ regular readers and a bunch of industry contacts what can you do after something like this has already happened? Well, we are here to help. Just contact us using our contact form with all the details of your automotive shop issue and we’ll work hard to get everything resolved for you. All we ask is that we are able to write about what happened.

So, be careful when you take your car to any shop and double check everything that you are told. And if you find a good honest shop, keep going there as they are worth their weight in gold.

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My EcoBoost's normal schedule is 25,000 km (15,600 miles), I will change at every 15,000 km (9960 miles) and be done with it.
My old DuraTorq's (turbo diesel) normal schedule was 20,000 km, I changed at every 15,000 km until I sold it at 300K on the clock. It did not smoke or consume a drop of oil when I handed it over (the oil level dropped about 3 mm on the 15 mm cross-hatched end of the dipstick during this 15K interval, which is normal for a driven in engine driven at normal load).

So I have done with all my other modern cars (old-timers running dino oils excluded). All but my first Soviet POS have been good with oil (used Mobil dino oil in it mostly, got a full crate of it cheap).

Full-size Transits have 50,000 km (31,000 mile) oil change interval in Europe.

Modern quality oil can take a hell of a beating before the molecules start falling apart and losing their lubing characteristics, I just change the oil before the recommended time because I'm a car guy and it feels good.

K&N or any other foam filter: that's a REALLY dumb thing to do for your daily driver. Go ahead in a track day toy if it feels any better. Because physics. Change your fiber filter in time if you feel restricted. These are designed for the required air flow up to the redline.

Motorcraft is just Ford's own re-packaged brand for outsourced quality anything. You can get your oil from any well-known manufacturer, I have been using Mobil, Valvoline, Motul, Liqui-Moly, BP, Texaco (just went to check my garage shelf for leftover cans). Just make sure to get a quality filter, OEM, Fram, Purolator, Wix, Bosch or any other well-known brand is good.

Edited by mrtn

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Change mine every 5k, do it myself, and only use Motorcraft oil and filter on both of my 2012's. I decided to stick with the Motorcraft brand all the way around for the simple fact that after tax I can buy a filter and gallon oil jug for the same price as just a jug of oil from the other brands. Just rolled over 191k miles last night on the way home, and no oil related problems yet. The other van is over 210k with no oil related issues, so I cant really complain. 

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Between 4000 to 7000 miles. The TC has been on Motorcraft so far. That could change as my other vehicles are on different Oil and if it was time and I have the correct amount of something else it could go in.  

All the major oil brands are more that adequate for the job .  Having the correct amount of clean oil is much more important than the brand.  

I think that the fancy air cleaners most important improvement is in the internal image of the car owner. 

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mrtn,

I can only guess that European motor oil is produced to a different spec than U.S.A. motor oil.  Here, the oil change intervals are at much lower mileage points.  

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I'm 100% sure the oil is exactly the same. It's just a marketing issue.

G B L likes this

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The environmental cost of a vehicle has much more importance in the EU and UK.  This would carry through to the maintenance routine.  

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On 10/15/2016 at 4:46 AM, BSUPC said:

 Just rolled over 191k miles last night on the way home, and no oil related problems yet. The other van is over 210k with no oil related issues, so I cant really complain. 

 

Interesting.  Transit Connects at the 200K mark, without oil issues.  

 

What issues have you had at that many miles?  Anything for us to look out for?

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21 hours ago, mrtn said:

I'm 100% sure the oil is exactly the same. It's just a marketing issue.

 

 

A quick look at Bob Is The Oil Guy shows that it is a popular topic of discussion.

About 50,700 results (0.83 seconds) 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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With my 2016 van, this will be the first time in almost 20 yrs. I will be allowing someone else to change my oil. Because of the large shield underneath that must be removed, and because I can't actually get under the van without purchasing and storing ramps somewhere, I will be using the dealership for oil changes. It helps that this vehicle is using a synthetic and it doesn't have to be changed often (the 3000 mile oil stop changes were always a rip-off IMO). I have been using full synthetic on my last 3 pickups and have only been changing at 10,000 mile intervals. Looks like the latest vehicles are finally catching up to that concept.

 

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7 minutes ago, Fifty150 said:

A quick look at ...

Interesting.

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21 minutes ago, tcconvert said:

 

With my 2016 van, this will be the first time in almost 20 yrs. I will be allowing someone else to change my oil. Because of the large shield underneath that must be removed, and because I can't actually get under the van without purchasing and storing ramps somewhere, I will be using the dealership for oil changes. It helps that this vehicle is using a synthetic and it doesn't have to be changed often (the 3000 mile oil stop changes were always a rip-off IMO). I have been using full synthetic on my last 3 pickups and have only been changing at 10,000 mile intervals. Looks like the latest vehicles are finally catching up to that concept.

 

"What kind of oil are you using?'

 

I remember hearing that as a kid, when my dad and uncles worked on their cars on the weekends.  As a teenager, I got all kinds of conflicting information, from every source.  

  • Don't use synthetics, they will make your engine leak.
  • Only use synthetic, it's better and your engine won't leak.
  • Never mix synthetics with conventional oil, your car wasn't made to do that.
  • Synthetics are just a waste of money.
  • Don't waste your money on conventional oil, because you'll pay for it when your engine fails.
  • Conventional oil leaves sludge in your engine.
  • Conventional oil is better for the gaskets and seals.
  • Synthetic oil is better for the gaskets and seals.
  • Change every 3000.
  • Change every 5000.
  • Change every 7500.

 

Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl
With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there
She would merengue and do the cha-cha
And while she tried to be a star
Tony always tended bar
Across the crowded floor, they worked from eight til four
They were young and they had each other
Who could ask for more?

20 years ago, before the Age of Enlightenment, I believed in a lot of what I heard, because there really wasn't a way to fact check what you were hearing.  You couldn't simply "google" your way into any information (reliable or otherwise).  In today's computer age, with search engines, we can now come up with even more conflicting and unreliable information to muddle the facts.  

Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl
But that was thirty years ago, when they used to have a show
Now it's a disco, but not for Lola
Still in dress she used to wear
Faded feathers in her hair
She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind
She lost her youth and she lost her Tony
Now she's lost her mind

20 years ago, cars were different.  Technology was different.  Modern vehicles are built to a different standard.  Engines have a different tolerance.  20 years ago, the family car was a Taurus.  Would you drive a Taurus today?  Back in those days, I put 10W40 into just about everything, Clinton was re-elected, I wore tighter pants, was 20 lbs lighter, and had more hair on my head.  

 

OBD II wasn't mandatory in all cars in The United States until 20 years ago.

Let's assume that the control group factor is the car and the factory fill of oil.  Every one of us drives our cars just a little bit differently.  We are the variable.  Some guys can go an entire year without hitting 10,000 miles.  Other guys can do that in a few months.  My company car sees about 200 miles a day.  

The only real way to know what is happening under your hood, is to submit your oil for used oil analysis.  Extreme, right?  But that takes the guessing right out of it.  

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

What is a TBN, and who uses it? In short, a TBN (total base number) measures the amount of active additive left in a sample of oil. The TBN is useful for people who want to extend their oil usage far beyond the normal range.

The TBN of a used oil can aid the user in determining how much reserve additive the oil has left to neutralize acids. The lower the TBN reading, the less active additive the oil has left.

Note: You do not need to send in a virgin sample for us to run a TBN on your oil. Some people like to send a virgin sample anyway, to find out exactly where the TBN of a specific oil starts out. The cost of a virgin oil sample plus TBN is the same as a regular oil sample plus TBN.

An oil's function is to lubricate, clean, and cool the engine. Additives are added to the oil to enhance those functions. The TBN will start out reading in the 6.0 to 14.0 range (depending on whether the oil is for gas or diesel engines). When you first start using the oil the TBN tends to drop sharply. Then it  levels out and drops more slowly after that. A low TBN test result, meaning very little additive is left, is down around 1.0 or lower.

Scientifically speaking, the TBN is one of two "neutralization number" tests run on oils. The TAN (total acid number), which is used for hydraulic oils, is the other. The TBN measures how much base (as in, a base vs. an acid) additive is in the oil to offset the deleterious effects of acids coming into the oil from combustion and other sources.

However, the TBN is not the only factor to consider when determining how long an oil can be used. If wear accumulations and insolubles in the oil build up and become abrasive, we would recommend changing out the oil, no matter how high the TBN reading.

Case Scenarios

Case #1
Joe Owner has a new engine and wants to determine how long he can keep a fill of oil in place. He sends in a sample of his virgin oil (with no miles on it) and a sample of his used oil (with 3,000 miles on it) for an analysis and a TBN test.

The virgin oil has a TBN reading of 12.0. His used oil has a TBN reading of 9.5, and his wear levels are fine. Joe decides to leave his current fill of oil in place, and resamples in another 3,000 miles. This time, the TBN reads 6.0, still an average amount, but his wear accumulations and insolubles have built up to a level that causes the oil to become abrasive. We recommend that Joe change out this oil.

Case #2
Jill Owner has a new engine and wants to determine how long she can keep a fill of oil in place. She sends in a sample of her virgin oil (with no miles on it) and a sample of her used oil (with 3,000 miles on it) for analysis and a TBN test.

The virgin oil has a TBN reading of 7.0. Her used oil has a TBN of reading of 5.0, and her wear levels are fine. Jill decides to leave this fill of oil in place, and she resamples in another 3,000 miles. This time, the TBN reads 4.5, and her wear levels are still low. Jill decides to leave her oil in place a bit longer, and she resamples in another 1,500 miles. This time, the TBN reads 2.5, and although wear accumulations are still normal, we recommend she change out the oil.

Do you need the TBN test in your maintenance routine? Only you can answer that question.  We offer a TBN test on any gasoline or diesel oil sample for an additional $10.

 

 

 

 

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I remember the same post (less poetic, tho) somewhere in the internet back when I was driving a Taurus.

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Good oil, Changed at some regular period will allow the car to reach the useful end of its service life.  If the only thing worn out was the engine then more people would replace the engine.  It is all the other stuff that stops working that makes the average owner get a new car.

If you get the TBN test every time you pay for an additional oil change every third oil change.

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I agree.  It's usually not the oil that fails you.  Water pumps, timing belts, thermostats, pulleys, belts, hoses......all lead you sitting on the side of the road.  Not to mention transmissions going out, brake system failures, steering pumps, suspension parts, rack & pinion.........

 

Just about the only thing that I've never broken was the driveshaft.  But those break also.  It's just that I've never broken one.

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Its the rear defroster, the window regulators , seat heaters  AC . These are the things that bug people to trade their cars.

The drive shaft usually does not fail it is the U-Joint and then the shaft falls out on the road

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On 10/16/2016 at 4:20 PM, Fifty150 said:

 

Interesting.  Transit Connects at the 200K mark, without oil issues.  

 

What issues have you had at that many miles?  Anything for us to look out for?

On the 200k I have had to replace a wheel bearing, wheel hub, and the battery. The wheel hub was replaced only due to the tire shop breaking off a stud trying to tighten a lug nut with a impact gun. The igmo (cross between ignorant and moron) hit the thing with the impact and never let off of it till the stud snapped off. He was a really bright one. Instead of using a torque wrench the igmo tried to torque it with the impact gun. (His own words)

On the 191k the radiator has developed a small leak in the drivers side bottom corner. Will be replacing this as soon as my new workshop is up and running.  Cant wait to get the lift back up and running. 

The man thing I see to watch out for is the wheel bearings. They used regular sedan bearings on the 2012 instead of a good bearing. The bearings are very weak for the job they are forced to handle. 

Basically drive it like it is a 4 cylinder work van and not a sports, and keep up the maint. and they do pretty good.   Been trying to convince a buddy of mine of this and he has yet to learn his lesson. His 2011 TC spends more time in the shop than on the road. But he drives it like it is a race car.  

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I'm wondering if the bearings, transmission, and other issues will crop up on the current generation.

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The wheel bearings on the Gen 2 are the same part number as the Gen 1 .  The major cause of bearing failure is water intrusion. Time will tell how they hold up.

The transmission is different. With proper care should give good service.

I am sure other stuff will break !

  

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It is never a matter of if something is going to break. Only a matter of when is it going to break. 

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I change the oil & filter myself.

I use Mobil1 5W/20 synthetic and Motorcraft filters. Costco has the best price on Mobil 1.

I'll change it twice a year or every 7500 miles, whichever comes first.

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